PIP isn't fit for purpose

[Ljcrow]

I made this comment on another thread and thought I'd start a separate thread purely on this topic. This is all from my own personal experience rather than from reading/hearing anything, I'm only going off what I see day to day.
The people I know who claim PIP do not need it financially. One works full time and earns more than me (and I'm not at imminent risk of homelessness or starvation) and the young people I know literally tell me things like their PIP's come in so they're off to get a new tattoo, which they then do. They appear to have much more disposable income than me.
These are all people who can function in society by the way and as far as I can see, all PIP does is give them extra spending money, which I'm sure we'd all like.

I'm aware this won't be the case for everyone who recieves PIP but it is for the people I come into regular contact with. Which is why it needs reloooking at so it only goes to those who actually need the money for a specific purpose related to their disability.

We're not in a position as a society where we can afford to give people money who do not actually need it.
Things like this should be means tested, both in terms of whether people have enough income to live a decent life without additional benefits and in terms of what the money is actually going to be used for.
PIP is not fit for purpose and needs scrapping or totally changing.

@TigerRag, you say you need to buy more shoes. More than whom? What is the average number of shoes people without a specific disability need?

Those are the exemple of 'additional cost' that I don't consider to be specific to a disability. There are many other reasons why someone might need to buy more shoes than what is the minimum deemed required.

I can't drive so if I want to visit friends that's train tickets and a hotel for the night
How is that an additional cost? Train tickets are often cheaper than driving when you account for all the cost. I'm about to go and visit my parents. They don't have space for me, so I'll have to stay in a hotel too.

One of them boasts about cleaning for depression and anxiety when she doesn’t suffer with either. The other one, my neighbour. made their claim about supposed agoraphobia. I see him walking to the pub most days. He travels to football matches home and away.

@Passaggressfedup

Is it fair to say that a dehumidifier isn’t an additional cost of allergies, because I’ve got one that was £210 and I’m not allergic to anything?

As I've said shoes don't last long because of how I walk. Plus I can't drive so will usually walk places

Train tickets cheaper than driving? Have you seen the cost of train tickets? A return to Taunton (which is 1.5 hours away) is £25 with a railcard booked in advance

It's different when the issue is space. I don't have the luxury of jumping in my car to drive home at night.

Needs prompting to be able to undertake any journey to avoid overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant
This criteria alone is total nonsense. How do you define 'overwhelming psychological distress?

It's like the tell me your pain level from 0 to 10. People with the same level of pain will rate it differently. If you tell the doctor that your pain is 10, they will take it at face value.

Same with psychological distress. If you tell your doctor that going on a journey is massively triggering, they are not going to challenge you. It's written in the patient notes and that's one tick towards getting the required points.

Our latest costs for adult son ( ASD complex ) are weekly psychiatrist on line for son as counselling he had at college did not cut if
Extra costs involved with PA - as an example there is a university trip and the PA is being co funded by university and social services to attend, Main transport and 2 meals will be provided to the PA but we have to cover lunch and other incidental costs for a week at £30 per day.
Sons additional costs of taxis to museums/ train stations etc on said university teaching trip he will be too overwrought to cope with traffic,
we have to replace the loo brush as son blocks toilet regularly/ has die something with toilet brush base and the toilet brush he has does not fit into an old container - no idea what is happening here but did discover by front door toilet plunger wrapped in blue towel
extra cleaning costs due to poo water being dribbled and lots of bleach needed.
Extra food / ingredients -he tries to ‘cook’ biscuits etc and it’s usually a disaster unless supported also he eats stuff all the time for oral stim
drama lessons to encourage him to socialise
extra costs transporting him to work experience etc
broken stuff - he has severe dyspraxia as well so it’s just a part of that.
PT trainer at gym for the above

i know that we should not but my son makes the PA a sandwich for lunch ( they are so badly paid) I cut the cheese for my son who then assembles the sandwich for him - the point is we are so desperate for good PA that you want to look after the good ones. And anyone receiving social care knows what I mean.

PA have to deal with so much eg today my son had a rant / decided life was not worth living and sort of had an outburst similar to Tourette’s but not - hard to describe. I find it hard too - I hair pull when stressed and did so afterwards as it’s horrible having the rant thrown at you and feeling powerless and it’s embarrassing or sad that the PA get paid so little for putting up with this stuff.

Yes, I'd like to know that.

You have to have been resident in the UK for at least 2 years out of the last 3 to be eligible.

People are often comparing to their former selves as the majority of disabilities happen as life goes on.

They know how many shoes they had before disability and after, or what heating they used to need, or what thier transport options were.

So actually as a result of the above I probably need counselling from dealing with son so arguably his pip should cover that as let’s face it it won’t happen on the NHS - I’m almost bald with stress of the years of looking after him frankly.

A train ticket and hotel may be a disability related cost if the person would otherwise drive there and back in a day, but can’t because e.g. they can’t drive and train times are limited so a day trip isn’t possible or fatigue means they can’t do all the travelling in one day. It isn’t about someone not having space for you to stay.

Can you really not see why some disabled people are harder wearing on footwear?

OPD has a specific meaning for PIP. There is case law if you want to google and read it.

PIP activities take pain into account via the reliability criteria, even though it is subjective, do you think they shouldn’t or is it just those mental illness who you think shouldn’t receive PIP?

But you don't need a diagnosis. It's based on need. You can get PIP whilst under assessment.

You need more evidence than just telling your doctor this though. To score the points for that descriptor someone would be under higher mental heath services. It’s not a case of tell the GP and they agree and pass it on as fact.

As I've said shoes don't last long because of how I walk. Plus I can't drive so will usually walk places
But many people walk a lot and in such a way that they need to buy shoes very often. It's not an uncommon need.

Train tickets cheaper than driving? Have you seen the cost of train tickets? A return to Taunton (which is 1.5 hours away) is £25 with a railcard booked in advance
And when you had the monthly car payment, petrol, repairs, insurance etc...driving is probably more expensive.

Is it fair to say that a dehumidifier isn’t an additional cost of allergies, because I’ve got one that was £210 and I’m not allergic to anything
Exactly my point, thank you! People buy these for other reasons and needs. That's why it wouldn't cross my mind to think that tax payers should pay for it. Same as the many costs people claim to be additional due to their disability when many non disabled people pay for these too.

Overwhelming distress for example for my son is that he observed to bang his head on the stonewall adjacent ( true story)

Nowadays he gets in bus and switches off by falling asleep within a few seconds ( deep sleep) we are awaiting a neuro report on it

There can be other signs eg bus refusals so that they would rather wait for hours in the cold rather than get a bus

My son would get off each stop and then get back on to avoid being brushed against.

So there are usually real behaviours that are huge not upsetting for all concerned

Yep.

My son goes through shoes far more now than before his disability. He also requires more expensive shoes now than before his disability.

You need more evidence than just telling your doctor this though. To score the points for that descriptor someone would be under higher mental heath services. It’s not a case of tell the GP and they agree and pass it on as fact
This is just one example of one descriptor. And people do get PIP for mental health having never seen a psychiatrist.

Presumably most people don't go through shoes quickly because they have issues relating to their balance which means they don't walk properly?

I've started thread 2.

How do they prove that mental health disability qualifies for PIP!

Usually at this level of need there is a support worker in attendance and daily care charts kept that pip can access

so they might read as follows

X became heightened and agitated and walked off at pace, he began to talk to himself and hit his head with his hand he said that he was rubbish and that he had enough of living
steps taken - removed x to a quiet corner and allowed him to re regulate for 10 mins and settle down - tried distraction techniques to prevent reoccurrence by asking if he wanted to go for a swim -
later we discussed the outburst and if he had understood the cause, key phrased that indicate it is due are I’m feeling blue now
I

Exactly.

How many people do you actually know on PIP? Are they claiming for genuine reasons?

@Noras, again exactly my point. These have been written taking into consideration severe circumstances.

The reality is that it is not true that you need a lot of evidence.

There was a fraudulent case that went to court not along ago where a man had claimed for many years that he was completely paralysed when he was perfectly about to walk. How do you evidence that you paralysed when you are not?

My son needs a pair of school shoes every half term due to his dyspraxia and the way he walks. They have holes the toes after 5-6 weeks. My other children need a pair of school shoes every year unless they grow out of them sooner.

I haven't identified them and can say what I like. Everything i have said is true. You don't know anything about them beyond that and if you did I doubt you would feel very respectful so perhaps wind your neck in.