PIP isn't fit for purpose

[Ljcrow]

I made this comment on another thread and thought I'd start a separate thread purely on this topic. This is all from my own personal experience rather than from reading/hearing anything, I'm only going off what I see day to day.
The people I know who claim PIP do not need it financially. One works full time and earns more than me (and I'm not at imminent risk of homelessness or starvation) and the young people I know literally tell me things like their PIP's come in so they're off to get a new tattoo, which they then do. They appear to have much more disposable income than me.
These are all people who can function in society by the way and as far as I can see, all PIP does is give them extra spending money, which I'm sure we'd all like.

I'm aware this won't be the case for everyone who recieves PIP but it is for the people I come into regular contact with. Which is why it needs reloooking at so it only goes to those who actually need the money for a specific purpose related to their disability.

We're not in a position as a society where we can afford to give people money who do not actually need it.
Things like this should be means tested, both in terms of whether people have enough income to live a decent life without additional benefits and in terms of what the money is actually going to be used for.
PIP is not fit for purpose and needs scrapping or totally changing.

Not everyone receives their aid for free. They can cost to buy &/or maintain.
Assistance dogs cost money.
Care from another person can cost. Even if it is e.g. a family member providing the care for free, they may have e.g. the cost of a ticket for the person. Of they may need to fund a carer. Or they may need a taxi instead.

A person doesn’t have to already be receiving the care for them to qualify.

If this is true it’s a real minority. I struggle on a day to day basis in my own home let alone getting out of my house. There’s not a part of my life my disabilities it doesn’t affect. I have had to really fight to get the PIP. Prior to this I was entitled to DLA for life. What I have been subjected to has been degrading and the stress it has caused in getting PIP has been very stressful and to be honest it’s easier to give up. I was quoted on first applying up to 80 is turned down and on appeal it’s 65 %.
before making these comments you should spend a day in my shoes and then you’ll have a better understanding and a bit of compassion. I had using my car work against me, but with out my car I would be house bound.

You wanting to interpret that 1 out of 5 being more significant than 4 out of 5, is a comprehension problem with you, not anyone else.

As someone who's filled out both forms over 12yrs, there's fuck all difference.

I feel for you if someone takes you somewhere and wants to charge you for parking the car ! But I do understand, taxis are expensive. There is a cost to being disabled largely that, particularly for people with a visual impairment or blind that they are often unemployed.

The problem the Government has is that the PIP seems to ask questions ( perhaps they need rephrasing) and awards sums of money without assessing a persons extra costs their disability would have.

Doing so with dignity may not be easy. But some sort of change somewhere is needed as the system presently is not working well.

Of course there are blaggers. It happens in every system. There will always be some shitbag or other who wants what was clearly not intended for them. That’s not the fault of the genuinely disabled, but l guarantee you that it’s the genuinely disabled who will pay the price in the form of the restrictions that have to be put in place as a result.

I don't get this either. And if you're so disabled you can't follow a familiar journey how can you be fine to drive?

For the full rate of mobility pip planning and following a journey the descriptor is "cannot follow a familiar route without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid".

Yes, it is exactly what will happen.

epic, you ain't getting standard mobility because of anxiety

and you certainly ain't getting your enhanced, which requires 12 points - the descriptor for this is

Cannot follow the route of a familiar journey without another person, an assistance dog or an orientation aid. 12 points.

does that sound like a mobility issue due to mental or physical impairment?

"Not sure what evidence they provided butt I'm talking out of it I do know someone who received it and they were able to get out of the house. Obviously he lied to the assessor

Sure they did, sure you do 😜

Whatever you're feeding that walrus needs a revisit to cure its flatulence

PIP asks questions about the difficulty people have from day to day in managing everyday tasks and mobility. This, in turn assesses what their likely costs are and is the reason there are different levels of benefit - to address different levels of need. It isn’t intended to directly cover costs, it’s intended as an acknowledgement that to live with substantial disability comes with significant extra costs, and PIP makes a contribution to that.

Completely right. Which makes me angry on behalf of those who are.
Anyone exaggerating a claim to get a higher rate, or any rate at all, and doing it knowing they are able to manage should be truly ashamed.

Which doesn’t mean being unable to leave the house. It means you need the stated level of help to be able to do it.

I have anxiety, depression, autism, adhd, rheumatoid arthritis, bladder issues, ibs and chronic skin issues. It took 33 pages of evidence and calls to my specialists and even then they only gave me basic daily living even though my mobility is shafted.

Omg I wish you could speak to my dsd, she’d quite happily tell you how to get the enhanced 😆

Ds had an NHS issued wheelchair, it’s big and bulky and not brilliant for day to day so I had to buy a lightweight one which meets needs better.

He is unable to just get the bus to college like most 17 year olds would so he needs to be taken in the car every day. Because I work that means his aunty going out of her way to come and get him and ensure he goes to college. He can’t be left alone at all. We give her petrol money out of his PIP.

I have to have a much bigger car than I would otherwise in order to transport his wheelchair.

his feeding pump needs to be charged and there is a lot of extra washing comes with it!

i could go on and on with the extra costs that come with his being disabled that’s just the tip of the iceberg and it’s nothing compared to the costs some face!

It isnt the case that there ‘fuck all’ difference between the eligibility criteria for PIP and DLA. For example, someone who needs care throughout both day and night can be eligible for HRC DLA, but PIP doesn’t consider whether someone needs care specifically at night and you can get enhanced daily living component without needing any care at night. Similarly, someone eligible for HRM DLA because they are VUW may not be eligible for enhanced mobility PIP because VUW for DLA is typically considered 50m (although individual circumstances are looked at) whereas 12 points for the moving around activity for PIP is up to 20m (taking into account the reliably criteria).

I haven’t said 1 in 5 is more significant than 4 out of 5. My point is 1 out of 5 not being eligible/4 out of 5 being eligible isn’t the same as DLA just becoming PIP at 16 or near as that.

Your 12 years completing the forms isn’t the ‘gotcha’ you think. I have completed disability benefit forms for more than that.

What are you talking about? They got enhanced mobility because they scored 12 points on the planning journeys. Read the descriptors for this. And yes, i do know the details.

I know someone who finds it funny that they've got a pip car. Not in a "ha ha I've wangled the system" more funny in that it's comical. It's for their daughter who's ADHD. And all through DLA years the DD got the lower rates.

Then they did the transfer to pip and got the high mobility rate. She's got no idea why. But was like "fuck it, if they want to give it to me, I'll take it."

This was about 2yrs ago. She's still driving it. I think she said she gets it for 3yrs.

I mean that's not fraud, she just filled the same information she'd been putting all through the DLA years. And now she gets the car.

So whilst some people struggle with the forms, others don't.

Because there is far more to be considered that someone’s ability to drive. Case law shows that. Any assessment that only considered someone’s ability to drive would not be correct in law.

if they are unable to follow the routes unaided they would need someone accompanying on journeys, or to drive them around. As a disability support worker l’ve been involved in a fair few cases where the motability vehicle has been fitted with a specialist navigation device so they can be more independent.

Exactly. Some posters on here are so naive.

Agree. There are examples of case law from appeals/tribunals to support this. I think what a lot of posters don’t understand is that benefit decisions not only have to be fair and balanced to the claimant, they have to be correct in law too.

Yeeeah, 12 yrs experience is a bit of a "gotcha" for some random banging on that you can't know what you're possibly talking about.

There's actually small drop in the transfer from DLA to pip because of applications as well. The 16yr olds can't be arsed with the pages and pages and pages to fill out. My DC only gets it because I did it all for him.

Mobility cars aren’t a good deal and it’s either that or PIP payments. We instructed our
daughter not to have one. Of course she will know why she got enhanced. She will have filled the form out and it states clearly why when you get a decision.

Same with our DD1!