PIP isn't fit for purpose

[Ljcrow]

I made this comment on another thread and thought I'd start a separate thread purely on this topic. This is all from my own personal experience rather than from reading/hearing anything, I'm only going off what I see day to day.
The people I know who claim PIP do not need it financially. One works full time and earns more than me (and I'm not at imminent risk of homelessness or starvation) and the young people I know literally tell me things like their PIP's come in so they're off to get a new tattoo, which they then do. They appear to have much more disposable income than me.
These are all people who can function in society by the way and as far as I can see, all PIP does is give them extra spending money, which I'm sure we'd all like.

I'm aware this won't be the case for everyone who recieves PIP but it is for the people I come into regular contact with. Which is why it needs reloooking at so it only goes to those who actually need the money for a specific purpose related to their disability.

We're not in a position as a society where we can afford to give people money who do not actually need it.
Things like this should be means tested, both in terms of whether people have enough income to live a decent life without additional benefits and in terms of what the money is actually going to be used for.
PIP is not fit for purpose and needs scrapping or totally changing.

You wouldn't be eligible for PIP though if you are capable of going to the shops, dropping your kids off though.

interesting

and as for "full pip awards"

are you apparently saying that not being able to get from a to b on a familiar route gets you the higher rate of daily living and/or the mobility rate?

My husband claims PIP, he has Parkinsons and since he got made redundant has unsuccessfully searched for some work for three years but as he can't do a regular 8 - 5pm job and had a specific trade finding anything with flexibility and something he could do without experience has been impossible. I work but not on a lot more than minimum wage, so he only qualifies for ESA on top of PIP, but not enough for a mobility car, at the moment. If he didn't get PIP we would probably be visiting food banks.

It gets the higher rate of mobility .

Tell us you've never been on benefits without telling us you've never been on benefits. You wouldn't be spouting 'lifestyle choice' nonsense if you had the faintest idea how hard it is to live on benefits. People do only just manage to survive on them, in fact sometimes they don't manage to. (You've heard of food banks, right?)

Why is this so hard to comprehend?!

Since nobody does an assessment as to how much your disability costs you it doesn’t do that. It just pays out a flat rate.
Someone’s disability might cost them very little.
There will be costs for some people who have carers, need specialist clothing etc. But not all.

actually, I stand corrected, but saying you can't get from A to B ain't getting you the mobility award on its own AND assessors are quite stringent on these descriptors

1. Planning and following journeys.
2. Can plan and follow the route of a journey unaided. 0 points.
3. Needs prompting to be able to undertake any journey to avoid overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. 4 points.
4. Cannot plan the route of a journey. 8 points.
5. Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid. 10 points.
6. Cannot undertake any journey because it would cause overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. 10 points.
7. Cannot follow the route of a familiar journey without another person, an assistance dog or an orientation aid. 12 points.

there's a high bar of entry and you'd need more proof than "I get confused when using google maps on my phone and get the wrong bus, so I don't bother going out"

I asked how people create their own evidence, you haven’t actually said?

One of the criteria for enhanced mobility is unable to follow a familiar route without the help of a person or orientation aid

Does that not suggest that the person already has help from a person or an aid for it to be familiar.
What extra cost would be involved ?
I guess if the person or aid were removed there would be a cost. True.

You can ‘claim’ that to be the case but without evidence of a condition that would align with such a claim you will get nowhere. People treated with anxiety at GP level do not have sufficient impairment to get HRM. It just doesn’t happen. Anxiety doesn’t mean not able to go places alone, in the cases where anxiety is so bad that it does mean a person can jot go anywhere alone their evidence will come from mental health services not the GP.

They can claim they are unable to plan and follow journeys due to anxiety. Not sure what evidence they provided but I do know someone who received it and they were able to get out of the house. Obviously he lied to the assessor.

The cost of the mobility aid? I get it and as well as replacing my worn out mobility cane, which I had to replace again because I managed to leave it somewhere there's the cost of taxis, petrol and sometimes parking if someone's taking me somewhere as I can't drive and the cost of maintaining my cane - the tips need to be replaced

Work a day where l work OP. Twenty years as a disability outreach worker. Your experience is the polar opposite of mine. This is yet another benefit bashing thread. There are two reviews into PIP, the results of which are due before the end of the year. Let’s wait for those instead of relying on the opinion of someone who clearly hasn’t the first idea of what PIP is actually meant to support.

This what dsd went with, something like can’t follow familiar routes. But then gets a motability car for her to drive ? How does that make sense if you can’t follow routes ?

PIP and DLA eligibility criteria are different. I’m sorry you don’t understand that.

1 in 5 rising 16s on DLA not getting PIP shows it isn’t ‘near as’. And even if it was 100% it doesn’t mean DLA just turns into PIP. I’m sorry you don’t understand that either.

Totally agree. I’ve banged on about this on every miserable benefit bashing thread there is, but still people insist that they know someone ‘whose GP doles out antidepressants’ and they get PIP. It’s utter nonsense.

Exactly, a condition that aligns with the statement, people have clocked on that’s all they bloody need ! So those with adhd/asd/anxiety that ARE capable (not the ones who aren’t) have clocked on this is how they get around it.

Personal Independence Payment (PIP) Mobility Component Points Scores
To get an award of the mobility component you need to score:

• 8 points for the standard rate
• 12 points for the enhanced rate

PIP Points Scores Mobility Activities

1. Planning and following journeys.
2. Can plan and follow the route of a journey unaided. 0 points.
3. Needs prompting to be able to undertake any journey to avoid overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. 4 points.
4. Cannot plan the route of a journey. 8 points.
5. Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid. 10 points.
6. Cannot undertake any journey because it would cause overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. 10 points.
7. Cannot follow the route of a familiar journey without another person, an assistance dog or an orientation aid. 12 points.

Right, so what you're saying is that claiming you anxiety means on your form means you get 12 points for criteria 6?😆

are you doing your stand-up gig tonight, or Friday

I think too many are already on it - some need it some possibly do not, but are used to the level of income - My FIL has tried to claim for severe osteoarthritis - has doctors notes, consultant diagnosis, cannot walk far, weak painful hands - scored zero points for evertyhing- gone to appeal he gave up work due to the pain and is on a small pension and MIL supports him - his appeal just struck out without seeing him. Then you get youngsters with anxiety on PIP - does not seem right to me ??

Ugh as well as mobility scooter woman who got caught on CCTV and lazy twat with fake mental health problems, I forgot, there was a 3rd one at work.

Who was whining about "her car". She couldn't do something or other because it wasn't in her name. Turns out it was her MIL pip car. Which mil didn't need in the slightest. But got it so "Jane" could drive around in it, so Jane had no car costs.

So that's 3 pip fraudsters I've encountered in the last yr.

Jane had 2 kids. One she had on pip (sorry, DLA, because clearly no one knows what they are talking about if they dare to lump the two things together lol). The other she was desperately trying to get assessed for anything. Her husband and mum were doing a no win no fee claim for a car accident, and she was trying to sue a hotel for falling over pissed in the car park. Mil and bil both on pip.

It's so heavily abused, I feel too embarrassed of anyone knowing about my DC who has a legitimate claim. Even though people know he has a fully diagnosed condition. Pip has just become synonymous for people on the take. And I appreciate most people aren't, but due to the number that unfortunately are, it's getting that kind of stigma.

You don’t have to be unable to leave the house to get PIP for MH.

Honestly there is no point even arguing it, these people are adamant there are no blaggers because they themselves have been truthful so of course it must be the same for everyone else who is also being really honest.

It does happen. The person did have anxiety and would have had evidence for that. They can't have had evidence they never left the house without another person though because they did. What evidence would they need to provide for that?

They do get it though. I work with families that share that they get DLA at the higher rate for both. Take a look online at the groups that show people what to write on the claim forms. It is based on care and mobility needs not diagnosis so how do they check that X needs mum to do Y for him everyday and he wakes through the night and needs help to settle etc - you cannot check it. People have and do lie.