PIP isn't fit for purpose

[Ljcrow]

I made this comment on another thread and thought I'd start a separate thread purely on this topic. This is all from my own personal experience rather than from reading/hearing anything, I'm only going off what I see day to day.
The people I know who claim PIP do not need it financially. One works full time and earns more than me (and I'm not at imminent risk of homelessness or starvation) and the young people I know literally tell me things like their PIP's come in so they're off to get a new tattoo, which they then do. They appear to have much more disposable income than me.
These are all people who can function in society by the way and as far as I can see, all PIP does is give them extra spending money, which I'm sure we'd all like.

I'm aware this won't be the case for everyone who recieves PIP but it is for the people I come into regular contact with. Which is why it needs reloooking at so it only goes to those who actually need the money for a specific purpose related to their disability.

We're not in a position as a society where we can afford to give people money who do not actually need it.
Things like this should be means tested, both in terms of whether people have enough income to live a decent life without additional benefits and in terms of what the money is actually going to be used for.
PIP is not fit for purpose and needs scrapping or totally changing.

Yes! They have to print out the reports and post them (second class) when it would be easier, quicker and cheaper to use email. And we had to print out the report, the additional evidence etc and post it, when it could have been emailed.

I see this too OP, though live somewhere with a dipropionate number of 'creative people' quietly subsidised by wealthy relatives.

How do you know that ? My son got a place at a Sen school in year 4, needed the EHCP first obviously but he’s mainly there for social reasons rather than academic abilities.

I get it OP.

I don’t know where most of MN grew up but I lived on an estate where generations of families are on benefits with zero desire to work. Claiming PIP, DLA and regular benefits as well as having housing paid for. That passes down to the next lot of kids who then start having kids.

I think people are so naive to how much the benefits system (in general) is abused.

People who need it should get it.

@Chenecinquantecinq you should also request an adult social care assessment for your relative. Compared to DWP there is a very quick turn around. It sounds like your relative wasn’t receiving the funding and care he was entitled to. I’m sure the grandparents thought they were doing the right thing but they really weren’t doing the appropriate things required. Now they are dead it’s really him and other relatives that are suffering and trying to piece together a way forward.

No, they just are good at filling in the forms.

Depends who's pushing I guess and what propaganda they've fallen for. I know of disabled people who support proposals to 'slash welfare' platformed by some political parties, because they genuinely believe the money saved by targeting those other undeserving disabled people will mean an increase in benefits for them. They seem to have missed the part about the savings being used to cut taxes. Also that those who feel confident in judging a person's disability from a position of zero knowledge will feel just as free to judge their own.

I’d say the people who claim pip fall into a few categories

1. money doesn’t particularly help
2. like my mum they expect free public services and they pocket the pip no that’s for you buy the services in with pip
3. piss takers
4. people who claim pip and it and spend it on what the need

Whenever I see these benefit bashing threads, they make me wonder how the negative posters would cope if someone in their family was suddenly diagnosed with the same devastating degenerative illness as two of my (unrelated) relatives.

My family members went out of their way to hide their condition in order to protect their employment prospects for as long as they possibly could, but now one is profoundly disabled and the other has become their 24/7 carer, despite the fact that they are also now gradually becoming more disabled too. Their lives are blighted not only by their disease but by the continuing fruitless struggle to claim all the benefits they are entitled to and, needless to say, the SS are completely useless when it comes to the provision of any practical support.

I think it's laughable that the OP believes that benefit claimants reveal all of their intimate medical and financial details to randoms - indeed they have every reason to conceal as much as possible for as long as possible, as full disclosure of their disablement can cause so many problems in areas such as work, mortgage finance and insurance, to name but a few.

It's also irritates me when posters such as the OP start to pontificate about the benefits system - particularly when it concerns PIP and Motability - without any real knowledge of the way that it works and simply make up what they don't know.

Going forward, I'd urge everyone to have a good think about how they'd cope if they suddenly suffered a disabling stroke or were involved in a freak accident and how that might affect their future plans and that of their family before they take to their keyboard or open their big fat gobs.

You seem to think you have the right to make up your own facts though. You don't.

Your opinions are based on faulty understanding and are, therefore, worthless (as well as nasty)

Me too.

This just shows you don’t understand disability and disability related expenses beyond your own limited experience.

For example, you question why a taxi may be needed when they have a car. Yet there are several possible reasons. For example, maybe there are times they can’t drive because of their disability but they have a car because when they are able to drive that is cheaper &/or gives them greater independence. Maybe they can only drive short distances &/or to certain places. Maybe they can only drive when accompanied.

Another example, you ask how someone might wear their clothes out more frequently due to damage and constant washing and how much washing can one need to do. You might wear your clothes once before washing, but some people need several changes of clothes a day. Most people wear things like jackets more than once. Most don’t change their bedding every day, yet some need to. Some people develop holes in their clothes more quickly from e.g. chewing/picking due to sensory differences, frequent falls, etc.

As for saying some people have higher than average gas and electricity costs for non-disability related reasons, you miss the point. People who have higher costs because of their disability have these costs on top of normal extra costs. Two people who live in a colder area &/or a poorly insulated house might have higher than average costs, but the one who needs the house warmer for disability related reasons will still have higher costs. Working FT doesn’t change this.

We claim PIP for DC. Some of our expenses include:

• Higher electricity costs - medical equipment. DS1&3 have EOTAS/EOTIS, some of which is delivered from home so some days they are both home with up to 4 extra staff when others their age would be in school with no staff at home, DS1 has carers at home so sometimes there are 2 extra people in the house using electricity.
• Higher gas costs - we need the heating on higher and longer for DSs’ medical conditions and DS1’s reduced mobility. Because DS1&3 are at home more during the day, the heating needs to be on more than if they attended schools - both for their needs and because there are other people working in the house.
• Higher water costs - DS1’s clothes/bedding etc. need changing far more than the average person. This is more than a bit of extra washing. His specialist bath uses more water than many conventional baths. He also needs washing more. With carers and education staff in the house, there are more people using our water.
• Higher food costs - for medical reasons.
• Motability vehicle - the AP and adaptations. DS1’s current vehicle cost over £15k. That is on top of the monthly amount.
• Car parking charges and fuel costs - we have to drive places we would otherwise walk. Not all car parks offer free blue badge parking. More hospital trips.
• Equipment - Not everything is funded. We are lucky we have had a lot of charity grant funding for equipment that isn’t funded. For things such as SN car seat, SN buggies, bike trailer, specialist seating and some other equipment, but not everything is funded or has charity funding available. From the little things such as slider mitts, incontinence swim products, topping up the incontinence products provided because the NHS supplies aren’t enough even though we get a lot more than many to bigger expenses such as topping up the funding to have a H-frame hoist because only a single track hoist would be funded even though the OT recognised a H-frame would be better and was really needed. Not to mention all the things we buy in the hope they will help but don’t.
• Costs associated with hospital admissions.
• Medical assessments and treatment - assessment and medication for one of my DSs. The medication has now been taken over by the NHS.
• Pre-action letters to hold the LA and ICB to account. I can write my own, but my LA laughs and says good luck finding someone with a legal aid contract to take it further.
• Independent assessments for EHCP purposes to hold the LA to account - although the LA contributed to these costs with the settlements from previous complaints.

Here are some of the additional costs of being disabled in our home. We have 3 wheelchair users. I work 30hrs a week in a professional job but I hope to go back to full time after a period of ill health where I have been working reduced hours.

I have an adaptive car and we have just started to lease one for my eldest daughter, who at 18 deserves to be able to get out and about as does any other young adult who can't use buses and trains easily.

Things we have to take with us every time we go out, the chairs, back up Power sources, grips, gloves, specialist cushions and covers. You get caught in the rain, great get an umbrella! me I have to get my poncho cover, my chair cover and grow an extra pair of hands to get them out of the bag and and get them on, I can't just buy another umbrella. We always have spare ramps in the cars but I need someone to help me get it out.

We also have a bigger vehicle for getting all three wheelchairs in and out of for family trips. If you think your car insurance is expensive - double it and add some for an adaptive car. My work doesn't have private parking so I park locally and my Green Council has just introduced parking costs for Blue Badge people. If my car is in for repair or service, I need to get a taxi as I can't just borrow my husband's car and getting buses and trains have an extra level of issues, people and luggage in the wheelchair space, no one waiting for me at the station, the lifts out. There are two companies in our very large city which have adapted taxis and I often need to wait an hour or so.

My wheelchairs need insuring and servicing, so do our lifts, so does our electronic baths, so does the lifts on our beds, so does the adaptive equipment in the car, such as the lift, integrated ramps and slide boards.

Costs relating to adapting the house (wider doors, ramps, a lift, an adapted bathroom and wet room), we have a much higher house insurance due to the lift and bathrooms aids.

All of these cost exceed our PIP but they allow us to go to work, school, have a social life, apart from anywhere that has steps...

I am in my 50s and I have only been abroad 3 times and each of them were for Paras, I couldn't afford in my teens and twenties to even travel to euro and world championships. Now we have an adapted campervan which we were gifted from a charity about 5 years ago so the children could get to sporting events around Europe. And I can drive it too.

Thank you 😊

He has an EHCP. He's currently in Year 6.

Because many specialist provisions wouldn't be suitable for him in the first place and then due to the lack of spaces in general.

Plus now there is also the upcoming government plans to have more SEND children in mainstream schools.

Ignore the rude PPs, OP. You have a point and deep down they know of course there are some people who don't deserve it but get it. That's why there are many influencers teaching others how to game the system. Maybe some of these PPs are those with bad backs or have 'anxiety'.

@FizzyColaBottle8 this exactly! It is these people who make a mockery out of those with genuine disabilities, who struggle day in and day out (like many of the posters on this thread)! It is these people who take away from others who actually deserve it! I get so angry when people try to make out that benefit and PIP fraud doesn’t happen!

I have dyspraxia, had it all my life. It never crossed my mind to claim as I assumed these benefits were for proper disabled people. Wheelchair users etc. No people like me who occasionally run into lamp posts and need plastic plates and bowls because they inexplicably drop them a lot of the time.

I find it interesting that a number of posters say that their claim or a relatives claim - genuine and presumably with evidence - was rejected so they know how hard the process is, but then believe that ‘friends’ or colleagues or neighbours without genuine claims and no evidence were successful. It makes no sense. Facebook is not that powerful and scammers are not that clever. Because at the end of the day evidence is key. Tribunals are successful because evidence has been disregarded not due to the force of unsubstantiated argument or narrative.

Whilst I agree that fraud inevitably happens that isn't what OP is bothered about. She seems to want benefits to be reduced regardless of whether people are genuine.

Ah yes. That old chestnut. More for the GENUINE claimants. Surely no one is actually this stupid. The majority of people denied PIP ARE genuine. And that money the government claw back from them, doesn't go back into a pot marked "genuine benefit claimants" no one will be getting more. Your taxes won't be lowered either FYI

And don't expect us to believe you give a shiny shit about those GENUINE claimants. If you did, you'd be fucking outraged at the way they're treated by the government and the DWP.

Thank you. I’ve reported 2 people for clear abuse of the system. Including someone who genuinely went to his PIP assessment in his pyjamas because he was told it would help his claim. And it seemingly did.

I don’t know what happened to him but the other person I reported for flagrant lying and abuse of the system is still receiving her full entitlement 10 months later.

I don’t apologise for reporting them either.

And that’s the thing exactly, these genuine claimants should be angry that others take the piss ! I don’t get how they can’t be?!

Some of us have genuine claimants in our lives you know.. some of us also have pisstakers in our lives. My god

The relatives that were rejected were probably being honest but assessors assumed there was exaggeration because some people inevitably do so they they got fewer points than they should have done. The honest people suffer as a result of those that exaggerate. The dishonest claimants probably get evidence by lying to everyone including their GP.