PIP isn't fit for purpose

[Ljcrow]

I made this comment on another thread and thought I'd start a separate thread purely on this topic. This is all from my own personal experience rather than from reading/hearing anything, I'm only going off what I see day to day.
The people I know who claim PIP do not need it financially. One works full time and earns more than me (and I'm not at imminent risk of homelessness or starvation) and the young people I know literally tell me things like their PIP's come in so they're off to get a new tattoo, which they then do. They appear to have much more disposable income than me.
These are all people who can function in society by the way and as far as I can see, all PIP does is give them extra spending money, which I'm sure we'd all like.

I'm aware this won't be the case for everyone who recieves PIP but it is for the people I come into regular contact with. Which is why it needs reloooking at so it only goes to those who actually need the money for a specific purpose related to their disability.

We're not in a position as a society where we can afford to give people money who do not actually need it.
Things like this should be means tested, both in terms of whether people have enough income to live a decent life without additional benefits and in terms of what the money is actually going to be used for.
PIP is not fit for purpose and needs scrapping or totally changing.

I never claimed for my eldest - wish I had, bright A* student - endlessly at school challenging proposed managed moved, temp exclusions, walk outs. Home life was awful- trashing the house, running away, hearing voices, social services involved, she refused to engage with CAMHS wouldn’t get out of the car - it was a constant battle every day to manage her behaviour while working and caring for the other 2 alone! Ironically I work for children’s services and had a supportive boss.
it’s exhausting having one ND child let alone 3!

Anyone on benefit shouldn't get more than working people unless they are disable and needing expenses for their care.

My son gets PIP and he needs it. I am his appointee so his PIP goes into a separate account and is only used for his disability related costs.

My dyspraxia might actually be ADHD, but I am not certain. As a child, I used to do impulsive stuff. I could list them on here, but won't. One of them is extremely famous, but I was let off with a warning and I had to promise never to boast about it.

And this is you off sick @Ljcrow ?!!

This x 100. It is crazy that it even needs to be said. The income gap should be massive.

Pip isn't an out of work benefit. It is to cover extra costs and they are numerous.

My medication is unlicensed for the condition I have and by private prescription, so I can’t do the pre payment unfortunately. Thanks though 😊

Why if the disabled person can't work due to their disabilities and the costs of living is much higher. Why should they live in poverty?

Good for you!

I don’t claim DLA for my autistic son. He has spinal scoliosis and epic meltdowns, although, you meet him on a regular day, he would be an interesting, unusual and fairly mature 12 year old with some really incredible view points. People who meet him generally find him incredible verbose, they want to know more.
These people don’t see the damage he does to his school uniform, the lack of sleep, the amount of medication he needs to keep his back pain at bay. They don’t see the therapy sessions, the nights spent sleeping in my bed or the endless pens we have to buy. They don’t see the money spent on locks on the knife cupboard. Or even why we have to lock the knives away.
They don’t see the sheer exhaustion of a regular day.
I am going to apply for DLA for him, but posts like this put me off, make me think I’m “sponging off the government” or that I’m “not entitled to it”.
I guess that’s OPs point though. I shouldn’t be entitled to it because he does act and appear normal.
My dad has just been allocated PIP. He needs help to get his bathroom sorted so he can shower independently, not with someone watching him. He needs a walking stick, his old one (NHS) broke. He needs help cooking, cleaning, even using the toilet. But I guess he’s not allowed PIP either, because he’s spending it on a bathroom remodel and a new car. It’s irrelevant that he needs a car that he can get into and out of easier than his current one. He’s not allowed because OP says these are frivolous things…

And that’s fair enough, if he needs an appointee then he’s obviously genuine, people aren’t saying anything about the genuine claims. It’s the ones milking it that people get frustrated about.

erm, they both sound genuine. You should apply for DLA

@Ljcrow

There are people that vastly exagerate their CARE and MOBILITY needs to obtain PIP and DLA. I know of several families with several children with ADHD and autism who attend mainstream school and they have no care needs. They toilet themselves, they are out and about in the community without the guidance and support of anybody, no mobility needs, and would fail in they were accurate in getting higher rate care and higer rate mobility. They are conning the system by lying and exageration.

There are also people who do very much have care needs and mobility needs or both and are not conning the system and do not exagerate to obtain more than they are entitled to.

There are facebook groups and advisors online who will tell people exactly what they should write in the application for PIP or DLA (children) to gain the higher rates. I feel that all claims should be checked - they aren't.

The people that need care and mobility assistance should in my opinion get FREE CARE AND FREE MOBILITY ASSISTANCE. PIP and DLA money should be withdrawn and instead free care/wheelchairs/mobility cars/respite and enabling etc should be given. Then the ACTUAL care needs could be helped and the actual mobility needs helped and the con artists get nothing.

However, many people are deluded and don't realise that many families know the ways to get more benefit money and will use every way possible to get more money. It's not fair on genuine claimants and people who really do have care and mobility needs. It's not fit for purpose and is a massive con milked by many.

I know. They are both genuine reasons. I haven’t done a claim for my son yet simply because managing his behaviour whilst having ME and dealing with arthritis myself (at 37!) is taking a lot of my energy.

It is true and I also work with families and see lots of children with no actual care needs but claim DLA. There is a massive growth in claims and lots of groups online help claimants say what is wrong and what care and mobility needs they have - unfortuantely, many people do lie to get the extra money.

I read the title before the post and thought "hell yeah, I hear this all the time from the disabled people I work with (as in they're my colleagues and project partners). But no, this is mumsnet, silly me.

Applying for PIP is a stressful process for people I know who are genuinely disabled and who have real access requirements to remove barriers in their everyday lives.

Whereas my son is non verbal and doubly incontinent, and I had to have him at home for 18 months because a specialist school place couldn’t be found for him. It took us going to tribunal for one to be awarded, as the LA said his mainstream school was ‘meeting need’. It’s a postcode lottery.

I think vouchers for things could work although people that don't currently claim might start. Also companies providing those things may take advantage with high prices etc.

Its unlikely you would have been eligible for the reasons you have listed.

Because I’ve never actually met anyone who is. It’s like being angry about shoplifters. They exist, we pay more for our shopping because they do what they do, and that’s not going to change. I don’t think we should be searching disabled people’s bags because of some thieves who are breaking the rules the rest of us follow. That’s the equivalent of what you’re all suggesting imo.

They need to be looking at these people who claim to have "anxiety"
Bring back the undercover investigators to start rooting out just how "anxious" they really are 😉

This.

This is what I see every day of the week. Some very disabled people who really do need the money and some higher functioning individuals who pretend to have higher care and mobility needs to gain the same higher rate as the profoundly disabled individuals - it's frankly disgusting.

I don't get pip mobility as it is hard to get. I have an NHS wheelchair, walker and sticks, blue badge, and ot adjustments to house. I do have extra costs. Bought a mobility scooter and take taxis. But I can walk the length of five buses, so I don't get it.

Meanwhile people who say they can't plan a journey and get anxious get pip mobility. Crazy.

My son gets high rate care and high rate mobility DLA and what puzzles me is that if you don't have the evidence, how do they do it? I had help to fill it in but it was also made clear to me how important evidence is and how what I write would mean very little if I couldn't back it up with supporting evidence.

Especially in regards to HRM which you can only get for very specific reasons and if I remember rightly, in all cases, all of the flow charts must be a 'yes' with evidence whether it be under virtually unable to walk, severe mental impairment etc.