PIP isn't fit for purpose

[Ljcrow]

I made this comment on another thread and thought I'd start a separate thread purely on this topic. This is all from my own personal experience rather than from reading/hearing anything, I'm only going off what I see day to day.
The people I know who claim PIP do not need it financially. One works full time and earns more than me (and I'm not at imminent risk of homelessness or starvation) and the young people I know literally tell me things like their PIP's come in so they're off to get a new tattoo, which they then do. They appear to have much more disposable income than me.
These are all people who can function in society by the way and as far as I can see, all PIP does is give them extra spending money, which I'm sure we'd all like.

I'm aware this won't be the case for everyone who recieves PIP but it is for the people I come into regular contact with. Which is why it needs reloooking at so it only goes to those who actually need the money for a specific purpose related to their disability.

We're not in a position as a society where we can afford to give people money who do not actually need it.
Things like this should be means tested, both in terms of whether people have enough income to live a decent life without additional benefits and in terms of what the money is actually going to be used for.
PIP is not fit for purpose and needs scrapping or totally changing.

She would have had to lie a lot and also present some quite compelling evidence to fake the PIP criteria. If you think she's really fraudulently claiming PIP based on lies then I would anonymously report it- it should be really easy to prove that she CAN do things she's lied about being unable to do.

It's also a pack of lies. The welfare bill as a percentage of GDP has been static since the 1990s. I agree that fiction can be fascinating but it doesn't deserve thanks when it is presented as fact.

It's amazing to me that all these people who know benefits cheats don't report them.

@Ljcrow please explain to me why I should be worse off than someone without my health conditions and disabilities
I don’t have a motability vehicle as not quite bad enough and if I did qualify I couldn’t afford it anyway

Your anecdote is just that, an anecdote.

If she put as much effort into getting a job as she did claiming pip and uc then she would be doing fantastic !
The only evidence she used was her gp backing up her claims, pretty easy to do by going and seeing them and telling them you have massive anxiety. Diagnosis letter and cahms being involved when she was younger. Go also confirmed she tried medication but doesn’t take it as she didn’t like the way it made her feel.

Why would I report my own family member? You only see people suggesting this on Mumsnet, in real life people don’t do that.

It amazes me how many people on mumsnet has full access to someone else's medical records and finances. Nobody knows my full medical history or my finances just like they don't know the actual reality off my life and disabilities. The only people who even know im on pip are my consultants and cpn and they had to give evidence

I’m risk averse so would never cycle to work. I take public transport which costs me hundreds a month. Should I be compensated for being a wuss, as my costs for getting to work are more than co-worker who cycles in?

I am not disagreeing with you per se, but wondering if there are any other solutions that are less costly to the taxpayer. Should we expect people to move closer to work / find jobs that they can more easily get to? Someone mentioned that you can claim PIP if your anxiety prevents you from being able to take the bus. A wheelchair user would be expected to take the bus (and most buses now have space for wheelchair users) but someone too anxious to take the bus can get money towards taxis. It all seems a bit topsy turvy. If your Generalised Anxiety Disorder stops you from taking public transport, how are you able to do your job (most jobs involve interacting with people in some way)?

I don’t know what the solution is, but it’s an interesting discussion.

Really? If I thought a relative was committing serious fraud, and I'd spoken to them about it and warned them of the potential consequences and they continued, I would report them. I told SD at the time I thought her actions is trying to claim were morally wrong. If everyone is looking the other way and not reporting fraud then it's not surprising if it goes on undetected. Who else is going to report it if not people who know it's happening?

I am stunned at those who think PIP is given out freely and that claimants can somehow fake a disability. I’ve just been through the assessment process for my adult stepdaughter, born extremely premature, brain damaged from birth, lingering disabilities with vision and mobility from the treatment that kept her alive as a baby.

It must have taken 20 hours to write her application, and we attended her two-hour assessment.

She was awarded zero points, even though the Functional History listed her disabilities. They didn’t apply the legal test which asks if a claimant do something safely, reliably, repeatedly and take no more than twice as long as a non-disabled person. Instead they said because she’d had a job before, which was weird as it’s an in-work benefit, even though she really struggled with that, and we have the evidence from her former employer, and because she wasn’t out of breath walking past two doors in a corridor during the assessment, she was due nothing. There were so many assumptions about her because she can come across as very friendly and they didn’t consider her difficulties with cooking, eating, dressing and many more.

I then spent four weeks and over 100 hours writing her appeal. I hope she will be reassessed and get the payments that will help her in the future.

So stop saying it’s easy and people don’t need it. You have literally NO IDEA how hard it is to claim it, or what hidden disabilities people have. More importantly, how people spend their money is their business. Maybe that person getting a tattoo had a back payment lump sum from PIP because it takes so long for payments to arrive even if claimants have been approved at the first assessment.

Yeah, the Venn diagram for this shit is just a circle. And tedious to boot.

See, I would challenge some of these supposed extra costs:
higher gas and electric- why if you work FT? People in the North usually spend more on gas and electricity. People who've moved from warm countries spend more. People who can't afford well insulated homes. It's not just the disabled who spend more than average
need to take taxis more often why if you have a car?
pay more to park as can’t walk that bit further - my colleagues pay £3 a day parking, mine is £9.50 a day -that's fair enough, although there might be reasons why people need to park closer that are not due to disability.
More expensive food due to allergies and inability to prepare meals from scratch - I have allergies too and need to be careful. Not serious enough to claim, but still have to accept the extra costs. Many people can't cook from scratch for other reasons than disability
Wear my clothes out more frequently due to damage and constant washing - how? I only wear my clothes once before washing, it's normal for me and most people I know. How much more washing can one need to do?
Need to purchase other aids not supplied by NHS Like what? One off, ok but regularly? I had to buy a bpap machine because the hospital would only give me a cpap one, even though they acknowledged that a bpap was more adapted for me. I also have to pay privately for allergy treatment that is not funded by the NHS. A couple of hundred a month. My needs are not any of those stated on the pip application, so can't claim it. That's fair enough
Need to purchase more OTC meds
Used to have to pay an annual prescription charge - now 60+ so that’s one saving - I pay for that, 3 prescribed medications I take every day plus beconase every day too which I have to buy over the counter. £8 a month or so
Private therapy including physio and hydrotherapy I don't need that but my husband does due to an ongoing old injury
I also have acupuncture, remedial massage etc
I have to pay for services I am physically incapable of doing such as ironing, cleaning, gardening - often I can’t afford to so I have to live in poorer circumstances than that same person with the disability

I'm not denying that you need these things, but it's the assumption that only disabled people who meet pip guidelines have these additional costs. That is so far from the truth.

The most important point you should take in here is that you don't actually know their finances or their health and what it was awarded for. You may as well start judging them on whether their eyes are too close together.

On the other hand when the government make life harder and more expensive for all it's a great help to them if we all say "her in number 7 is the reason I struggle".

Rather than blame the government giving away 100s of millions for "a study of ethnic take up of adult education classes in uruguay" or "free dances classes for unemployed people in Calcutta" and destroying our economy generally.

I do know actually, my sisters was taken off her a few years ago after an assessment, my mum had to get the go to write a letter and have it reinstated. This is someone who says dollars instead of pounds btw. She system is absolutely flawed.

It is ridiculous.
I attend a few support groups, we rarely talk about benefits. Last time PIP was mentioned was when one lady had hers stopped, and it was really stressing her out (she has since got it back but had to go to tribunal). Another member (in their 60s) said they are still on DLA. Oh, and another time when someone had to provide bank statements for a UC review, and she was in bits as she thought she had done something wrong.
Literally the only time benefits have come up in the years I have been going.

The whole point is that it shouldn't be taking 100 hours. The whole assessment procedure is totally not fit for purpose imho.

I know quite a few people with severe disabilities like being deaf/blind/unable to walk who for some reason don't qualify (ok I didn't see their applications obviously, but I don't believe they're all lying) who spend a fortune on healthcare, so I'd like to see that made free for people who need it. I've seen a lot of cases where the NHS only supplies one type of thing (keeping vague as I'm not exposing friends who might be on here) but there is another type of, say, wheelchair, hearing aid etc that helps them much better and enables them to manage work/college etc.
If you made that sort of healthcare/tech free, then only those people who genuinely need it would claim (you could have checks to ensure they weren't selling them abroad, if that worries anyone, like them having to show their doctor at their check ups that they still had the device-all the people this might apply to said they'd be happy to do that instead of having to spend their own money on it), and tax money wouldn't be going on tattoos.

People choose to live in the north. I didn't choose to need a magnifying aid to read that needs charging. It's the only one that works for me. A lot of the aids I use either need batteries or electricity

You’d be surprised how many PIP claimants have a laugh and a brag about what they actually spend their PIP money on because for a good portion of the people I know who claim it, it isn’t for anything to do with their heath
Your post won't be acknowledged. When people run out of arguments, they just turn into 'you're just a disable person basher'.

Like many, if not most, it's not a out being jealous or envious. It's not about dismissing what life is like living with a disability. It's not about taking away finances when the costs are genuinely associated to their disability as opposed to ameliorate their lives.

It's about stopping the nonsense of people claiming who either spend the money on pure luxuries they don't actually need, or try to justify that their needs are not needs other people not eligible might have too.

The reality is that people are getting to know more and more claimants who fall in the above category, hence why polls such as this one is now ripping towards a majority that wants to see pip being reformed.

Many people with disabilities actively try to present themselves as being more capable than they are. Most people don’t want others to know how difficult they find things because of pride etc. How many people has anyone here heard talking about their incontinence issues? That must mean nobody has them then 🙄

@KermitsABadInfluence😂😂 just the same as people refusing to believe there is a huge problem with the welfare state in this country! Shit and tedious to boot!

Yes a hell of a lot of admin, which for some is really challenging.

My son’s friends mun claims UC and PIP for all three of her children. I talk to her at school gates regularly. She is very open about her situation. They have anxiety and adhd. All of the kids are in mainstream schools. She doesn’t work. They live in a new build large council house. They have a brand new motability SUV (she said it was from that scheme). They went on a Disney cruise last year for two weeks and this year when to Spain (pics on Facebook). Her kids do expensive activities

A women I don’t like claims legitimate benefits she is entitled to - UC, CB and DL for her 3 ND children. They attend mainstream schools ( with a lot of support in school and at home and probably due to funding and the lack of specialist provision), They live in social housing that they, like everyone, are entitled to apply for and it is the right size as to not be over crowded, sadly she can’t get a mortgage due to her care responsibilities meaning she can’t work, they have a car - big enough for the growing kids which SHE pays for from the DLA they receive, she is limited by rules on the car she can buy though this, they have been on holiday and her children take part in a range of activities- which is nice because it must be stressful at home and ND children often need routine and activities to manage.

see you have no idea if her every morning and evening is a constant battle dealing with meltdowns, overwhelm, sleeplessness, night waking. Her days taken up with medical apt, school meetings, further assessments, therapy for each child.

All you see is ‘nice house, car, holiday’ and think ‘how dare she’

Its concerning how the blame is shifting, first it was ‘illegals’, now it’s those with disabilities… who’s next?

People choose to live in the north. I didn't choose to need a magnifying aid to read that needs charging. It's the only one that works for me. A lot of the aids I use either need batteries or electricity
This is such an easy statement to make. My friend, who is from the South, had to move up North because that's where his ex has decided to move and that's the only way he can continue to see his kids regularly. A choice?

I didn't choose to need immunology therapy for the next three years as the last resort to treat my severe allergy. The alternative is to live with constant cold like symptoms.

I'm not denying your position, just that other people also have to accept extra costs through no choice of theirs and don't get compensation.