PIP isn't fit for purpose

[Ljcrow]

I made this comment on another thread and thought I'd start a separate thread purely on this topic. This is all from my own personal experience rather than from reading/hearing anything, I'm only going off what I see day to day.
The people I know who claim PIP do not need it financially. One works full time and earns more than me (and I'm not at imminent risk of homelessness or starvation) and the young people I know literally tell me things like their PIP's come in so they're off to get a new tattoo, which they then do. They appear to have much more disposable income than me.
These are all people who can function in society by the way and as far as I can see, all PIP does is give them extra spending money, which I'm sure we'd all like.

I'm aware this won't be the case for everyone who recieves PIP but it is for the people I come into regular contact with. Which is why it needs reloooking at so it only goes to those who actually need the money for a specific purpose related to their disability.

We're not in a position as a society where we can afford to give people money who do not actually need it.
Things like this should be means tested, both in terms of whether people have enough income to live a decent life without additional benefits and in terms of what the money is actually going to be used for.
PIP is not fit for purpose and needs scrapping or totally changing.

Sorry, are you wanting me to re type the entire post rather than you scrolling back to find it yourself?

Benefits were meant for survival not a lifestyle choice. Holidays aren't a necessity. Genuine disabled should be looked after however the point the OP makes is that so many claims aren't genuine. Why is this so hard to comprehend?!

No I want you to type something that’s actually true.

You dont need a diagnosis because its based on need
So for example my sons primary diagnosis is autism but its a huge spectrum a diagnosis alone wont make somone automatically eligible
You also need robust evidrnce to back up your claim.

Presumably you have medical evidence of how your condition effects you though.

If you guys see fraud report it.

Agree. And a holiday might mean just a few days away in a B&B because we don't have enough money for a proper holiday or the mobility or safety measures to enable us to go elsewhere. Again, everyone has a right to something a bit more than a poorper lifestyle.

I thought PIP was given to enable you to be able to do things you cant do because of being disabled. IE money for taxis to get places, heating bills, electricity top-ups, home modifications, private therapies, massage devices, TENS machines, heating pads, dressing aids etc
How does anyone know who has what disability, or problems? I think people just hate the thought of folk getting free money (not me- I'm glad I am healthy)
I remember my friend getting a new car once and another colleague was sneeringly saying "How can you afford it?" She said, "Its to get my disabled son places" and then she said, "I would rather have an abled bodied son than a new car"

See my other message. Yes you absolutely do.

No, it doesn’t near as anything. The latest statistics show 20.7% of rising 16s transferring from DLA to PIP do not receive an award of PIP. That isn’t near as anything.

It isn’t that one or two questions are phrased differently. The criteria are different.

You don’t need to print the form for either.

And print outs of your prescriptions. Fun when it's all electronic.

These threads are exhausting. Why can’t the genuine claimants understand there are some out there who exaggerate their symptoms ? My own sister is a genuine claimant, with a lifelong mental disability, she will never ever live alone, be able to bathe herself, prepare food for herself, nothing independent of my mum. But there ARE people claiming with high functioning asd/adhd who are very well capable of doing these things but saying they CAN’T. It’s very very naive of people to think those of us who know people who fucking brag about this are all lying.

Look at it this way:
Say you and your colleague and neighbour are on a very good wage. You do the exact same job.
You are able bodied so cycle 7 miles to work
They are disabled so can't. They need a taxi. They are £500 a month on these taxis.

Same living choices, same job, same income but they are £500 a month worse off because they are disabled.

As for the tattoos etc.... you pay a taxi daily not just when pip comes in. So pip is essentially reimbursing you. So now they can get the same tattoo as you can because they are now no longer £500 down.

Disability benefits are about giving people the same quality of life as they would have if they weren't disabled. Hence the fact they are called Disability Living Allowance and Personal Independence Payment.

It also may include things that aren't necessities such as hobbies and holidays because disability shouldn't stop people from doing things like that.

I look perfectly fine. We both have well paid jobs. However, I get enhanced PIP which pays for a Motability car as I can’t drive due to having epilepsy
My view is that this would be totally legitimate years ago when the majority of households could only afford one car, even when both worked.

Nowadays though, the majority of households where both adults work have two cars. So yes, you could justify that these people still have the option to take public transport, but for many, it's not genuine option because the time it would take to drop the kids to school and get to work would mean they would not be able to do their hours. So they very much don't have much of a choice either.

Anyone claiming most ility that went years without a car before becoming disabled, that's fair enough, but many did have a car before, they just now have a new car without the same expense, which leaves with more disposable income.

When I hear someone use the word "broken" to describe a system I immediately consign them to the stupid-bin.

I can see both sides of the story. I have a son who has a physical disability as well as learning disabilities. He gets DLA and it pays for horse riding lessons. I’m sure some people think we don’t need it because we earn enough, but without it we couldn’t afford these lessons. Other people probably think it’s a luxury. All I see is a child that could hardly walk and rode bikes into bushes, that can now run, jump, ride his bike in a straight line (all things you don’t appreciate because you expect that a child should be able to do those things automatically), because of those horse riding lessons.

On the other hand, I have a 30 year old family member who claims PIP and has never worked a day in his life. He got good grades at school and went to university, came out of it with a degree. Once he left uni and realised how much student loan he’d have to pay back, he decided working life was not for him, and now has multiple medical issues, none of which have been properly diagnosed. He claims it’s impossible for him to work in any job, despite the fact that he managed school and uni just fine. I love him dearly, but it does boil my blood that he has been able to make that choice. I work my arse off to be able to afford £100 theatre tickets while he goes for free and brags about it.

Yes, it’s annoying OP. The trouble is, we don’t know who the benefits cheats are just by looking at them, so on face value we have to take their word for it that they need they money and hope the government are doing their jobs properly.

Or a holiday partying in Ibiza ? But they’re too anxious to get on a bus alone ? Come on, can you not see the difference ?

Jealousy is a terrible thing.

You do realise how much the nhs and social care saves by people getting pip you take pip away people won't suddenly not be disabled the costs will be transferred at a higher cost to other services. I get pip prior to pip i used hospital transport as im under multiple trusts spread across the country. Hospital transport is very unreliable as they can't meet the demand so multiple appointments where missed last minute this costs money and increases waiting times for everyone. I now get pip so am no longer entitled to hospital transport so I now pay for transport from my pip which doesn't even cover the full cost of transport so the government are saving and i no longer miss appointments which saves the hospital money and reduces waiting times.

Where are they getting their evidence from then ?
Because it needs to be robust not just a patient says letter from the GP.

This is the porblem with the PIP system.

There are many people who need it, claim it and use it to help their lives. No problem at all.

There are people who don’t really need it, claim it and use it to fund their lives above their living.

My son’s friends mun claims UC and PIP for all three of her children. I talk to her at school gates regularly. She is very open about her situation. They have anxiety and adhd. All of the kids are in mainstream schools. She doesn’t work. They live in a new build large council house. They have a brand new motability SUV (she said it was from that scheme). They went on a Disney cruise last year for two weeks and this year when to Spain (pics on Facebook). Her kids do expensive activities.

Is my lifestyle better - yes so it’s not jealousy. But it sure doesn’t seem right.

It’s the people taking advantage not the ones who need it. I have this example aA I know this woman, she is very open about it and I soeak to her regularly- this isn’t an ‘I heard it from someone’.

Thank you. And what these people going on about disabled people being able to have a holiday abroad, fail to take into account, is the amount of money that is being spent on travel insurance alone. They would baulk if they knew what it could cost, depending on the type of disability. Things like that make such a difference between being disabled, or not. Being disabled is expensive! I rarely travel abroad because of these factors, in my life. And before anybody else pipes up about holidays being non-essential, I don't care at all for that opinion. I intend to try to enjoy my life, despite the difficulties I face, due to being disabled.

My sister has severe schizophrenia. She has been hospitalised 6 times in the last 3 years, for periods of months at a time. She has to be injected with medication at the hospital or she will be taken in again. She receives PiP, when the paperwork is all kept in order by her social workers.

Anyone saying physical disabilities are more deserving think she’d be able to work along side you? If not, why not and what do you think constitutes a non-physical disability?

You have to be 16 to get pip so either shes lying or you are