PIP isn't fit for purpose

[Ljcrow]

I made this comment on another thread and thought I'd start a separate thread purely on this topic. This is all from my own personal experience rather than from reading/hearing anything, I'm only going off what I see day to day.
The people I know who claim PIP do not need it financially. One works full time and earns more than me (and I'm not at imminent risk of homelessness or starvation) and the young people I know literally tell me things like their PIP's come in so they're off to get a new tattoo, which they then do. They appear to have much more disposable income than me.
These are all people who can function in society by the way and as far as I can see, all PIP does is give them extra spending money, which I'm sure we'd all like.

I'm aware this won't be the case for everyone who recieves PIP but it is for the people I come into regular contact with. Which is why it needs reloooking at so it only goes to those who actually need the money for a specific purpose related to their disability.

We're not in a position as a society where we can afford to give people money who do not actually need it.
Things like this should be means tested, both in terms of whether people have enough income to live a decent life without additional benefits and in terms of what the money is actually going to be used for.
PIP is not fit for purpose and needs scrapping or totally changing.

Did your friend put in a mandatory consideration, to try to challenge the level she got?

Medication is free for children and hobbies are part of a parents outgoings when they have DC. Perhaps if PIP wasnt’y awarded for neuro divergence or mental health then severely disabled people would receive more, which they deserve.

They don't. It is means tested.

No you dont because children cant get PIP only DLA and if you dont even know the basics then you most certainly wont know what they spend it on.

Ok, what’s wrong with u? I pay into the NHS, what medication are you on and what surgeries have u had? ( you see my drift?)

You don't get as much as you would think in PIP payments if you also work. I work part time because of chronic pain and fatigue conditions (autoimmune). I don't know what I'd do if my conditions worsened again as I couldn't afford to give up work altogether.

Receiving PIP means I can pay bills and not have to worry, buy food that I can enjoy, medical equipment & shock horror-have my hair cut every few months and buy essential clothes once in a while. I can even treat myself every now and then but that's called having a half decent quality of life that I deserve (we all deserve a quality of life) and that compensates for not being able to work full time, which I want to do and not being able to do activities, and see friends and family who I love.

It's not about having lots of extra money, it's feeling safer with a bit more, instead of worrying when the next bill is coming and how I'm going to pay it.

It's easy to say that they function, and if you don't know someone well, it's easy to judge. Lots of illnesses are invisible (like mine) and to most people, I don't moan as much as I'd like to, because I don't want to become that person who does all the time. At the same time, a lot of my family don't take an interest in my health like I would like them to and don't have a clue how much I suffer.

PIP is so difficult to get. I know a lot of people who have terminal illnesses/co-morbidities and have a hard time receiving it or don't qualify. Certain documents and health diagnosis letters have to be provided and fit notes for a long period of time before it can be accepted. I think so many people are ignorant to all that I have stated.

Please don't judge.

You don’t ‘think’ you have to provide evidence? So you know nothing about how the assessment for PIP works yet are here making wild claims anyway?

YOU NEED TO PROVIDE EVIDENCE.

Most receiving disability benefits spend far more on disability related expenses than they receive in disability benefits. Scope’s disability price tag research shows on average disabled households need an extra £1,095 each month to have the same standard of living as non-disabled households. Their research also shows only one quintile receives more in disability benefits than they spend on disability expenses.

PIP should not be means tested. Even the Timms review acknowledges that.

I don't agree with this line of thinking, at all. Even if they stopped any money being paid on ND alone, they will not suddenly increase the amount of money that people with physical disablities receive.

No, I won’t report my own stepdaughter. Funnily enough I do have texts she sent me when her and her mum were arguing mentioning how her mum lied on the forms saying she was less capable than she is !! But I wouldn’t betray her like that, I’m well entitled to moan about it on an anonymous forum though !
and btw myself and her dad have tried to tell her a million times not to rely on uc and pip, and get a job or go to college, she’s quite happy on benefits 🤷‍♀️ she’s very clever when it comes to getting something she wants !

Bravo!!!

No. They weren't that bothered as had only applied to get things like disabled railcard etc They needed pip for proof. It does make me think the system is unfair to those with physical disabilities though.

@KermitsABadInfluencegosh how unusual someone on Mumsnet will refuse to believe that there are people we actually know who abuse the benefits system!

It isn’t so much that there isn’t a mid rate of PIP. It is that there isn’t a low rate. The standard rate of the daily living component of PIP is the same monetary value as mid rate care DLA. Adding a rate to PIP that is equivalent of low rate care DLA wouldn’t save money.

What actual evidence do you have of this? "Too easy"? It's bloody hard. I suspect the number of people who are put off by the punishing and humiliating process from getting money they actually deserve could well outweigh the money given to actual fraudsters.

According to the Department for Work and Pensions statistics for the Financial Year Ending 2026, the fraud rate for PIP is 1.4%, which equals approximately £399 million out of a total PIP expenditure of £28.5 billion.

Meanwhile approximately £950 million in PIP (ie more than twice as much as the fraud rate) goes unclaimed each year due to "unfulfilled eligibility" ie people getting a lower rate who ought to qualify for a higher rate but generally can't bear to reopen the torturous process. And that's only from people who are getting PIP but less than they deserve, I couldn't find a number for people who ought to be getting something and aren't getting anything, but I think it's quite likely to be even higher.

Given that no assessment process will ever be perfect, how much more draconian does the process have to be to reduce that 1.4% fraud rate, and what will the knock on effect do in driving up unfulfilled eligibility - which is a measure of our failure to be a civilised society that protects the vulnerable?

Do you have a pre payment plan for medication? I pay around £11 per month and I have 9 prescribed medications so that saves me about £80 per month .

You're deluded if you think that not allowing people with certain disabilities not to claim would give more money to people with other disabilities

And what about people who are severely disabled by their mental health or neuro divergence?

Agree 100% and couldn’t have said it better

And what do you class as severley dissbled ?
My son is autistic and is 16 and cannot speak at all and functions at around 2/3 years of age
Is that severe enough for you ?
Also mental health condtions can range from mild anxiety to severe and enduring conditions such as schizophrenia.

No, DLA doesn’t just turn to PIP when you are 16. You, or your appointee, has to apply and go through the assessment process. The eligibility criteria for PIP are not the same as for DLA. Some who are eligible for DLA are not eligible for PIP, and some who aren’t eligible for DLA are eligible for PIP.

I have recently been awarded PIP for 2 conditions, one of which is ADHD. I also work full time and pay the higher tax rate. I’ve paid tax at the higher rate for the last 10 years. I receive not claim any other benefit or government support.

My PIP payment goes straight towards specific things that make my life easier and allow me to continue to work full time and continue to pay tax/national insurance. This includes a cheap meal delivery service. Spending a benefit on Gousto I hear you scream!! My ADHD is so difficult to manage that I have almost burned my house down twice, once left some food in my microwave for over a week… I can cook, I can function in society, but my brain just can’t cope with meal prep. I manage multi million pound budgets at work but can’t set a timer on my oven. Over several years this, (and the well known ADHD medication side effect of reduced appetite), caused genuine malnutrition and a severe lack of phosphate. I was hospitalised for a week after collapsing at work. I am single and something like Gousto wasn’t affordable to me previously despite a good salary.

The rest of my PIP pays for treatment of my rare and extremely painful disease. Over 80% of sufferers worldwide can’t work due to the pain it causes. I use my PIP for private treatment and pain management which allows me to work full time rather than claim additional benefits.

I struggled with guilt and shame for over a year before I applied for PIP. It has genuinely enabled me to contribute to society and succeed in my career, which I am proud of. I volunteer as an appropriate adult, at an animal charity and support families navigating the SEND system for 10-15 hours per week; none of which is have been able to do if it wasn’t for PIP.

I also know so many people who completely scam the system. And don’t bother to hide it. There are facebooks groups dedicated to passing the assessment. Companies exist who, for a fee will write your application. An acquaintance of a friend gets this maximum amount of PIP available and uses it to go abroad, buy clothes and smoke weed. I supported a family recently who were getting £2850 combined PIP, DLA and motability. It infuriates me but it would be political suicide for any party to try to to take this off people. We’ve enabled millions of people to rely on the state and, in my experience, it’s actually worse with the younger generations who believe the word owes them a favour and lack skills such as resilience, tenacity and grit.

I don’t know how you’d means test PIP. Most reasonable people would be outraged at what I spend mine on…but I think it’s defensible due to my circumstances and personal context.

Ridiculous isn’t it. How fucking naive

Good to read that you would not report her.

Agreed.

True for people with physical disabilities. I think it is quite easy to lie about not being able to do things due to ADHD or anxiety though.