to not want ds, 9, to attend the sex education lessons at school?

[fircone]

It's just that he is only a little boy. He is the youngest in the year and is completely un-streetwise. His friends' mothers are unhappy about these lessons too.

I'm not Victoria Gillick (remember her, anyone?) and I would be happy for information to be provided at the end of Year 6 before they move up to secondary school, but I strongly feel that at nine years old this is going to be all too much.

I know that there is the brigade who insist that children must be aware of everything from the earliest age, but I am happy for children to stay children for as long as possible.

duchesse on Sat 05-Jul-08 10:45:37
"And there are plenty of 10 yr olds who are not ready to be told formally, my own included. Luckily at the school she goes to, she was able to make up her own mind about it (I left that entirely to her) and and a complete meltdown when a misunderstanding made her science teacher insist on her coming to the class with the 12-13 yr olds to be told about periods etc. She was in hysterics for about half an hour after being rescued from the foetal position in which she was under a desk. This is not a child who is in any way ready to hear this stuff, let alone the mechanics of sex. If she had been in a state school, this would as I understand have been compulsory."

But Duchesse, lots of girls have their first periods at 10. My dd did and she is not the only one in the class. Do you think it would be better if periods started when she was unprepared?

If your child got hysterical at this information, then that strongly suggests that it was not presented in an age appropriate way. Or that she has somehow got the impression that there is something nasty about this subject that sets it apart from other bits of biology.

Not read the whole thread but personally I would prefer to introduce the subject with my children before they hear it in school. Surely there can't be many 9 year olds who haven't asked their parents where babies come from? ~Isn't it strange for a child NOT to wonder, and if they ask, don't you owe it to them to tell them the truth? It's not some dirty secret, it's a part of life! Just because they know about sex doesn't mean they are going to go out and have sex, nor is it some sort of 'loss of innocence' or whatever to know about a basic fact of life. It's no big deal. Get over it.

To put this another way:

no amount of excusing from sex lessons is going to absolve your daughter from the fact that her own periods may start any time

if she gets hysterical when the subject is mentioned- how is she going to cope with the real thing?

you can't decide to postpone her actual periods because you think she is too young; it will happen when it happens- Nature won't care if she is emotionally ready

I would be really worried about my daughter if she was as ill prepared as this. She was only just 10 when her periods started and she took it in her stride because she'd known about it for years. Not a big deal.

Duchesse......I really don't think you can make generalisation. On holiday in a small town in Brittany last Summer I discovered my ds (16) with a group of unsupervised, local french teenagers who befriended him and were plying him with vodka. They were all riding scooters, obviously drunk, not wearing any protective clothing and there was not a parent in sight. This goes completely against you're argument. I have no experience to know if this was typical of french teenage behaviour but didn't seem any different from teenage behaviour in this country. I feel there must be other factors which influence their lower rate of teen pregnancy....maybe better education?

At least one of dd's friends started her periods while away on the school trip. She would have been totally freaked out if she hadn't known what was going on and hadn't been able to talk to her friends + teachers about it (to get hold of sanitary towels for one thing).

What ever did they tell your dd in a discussion about periods that reduced her to hiding under a desk for 30 mins in hysterics? Frankly that would really concern me.

I was thinking the same as Kiddiz. Presumably she does not react in the same way when she is taught other facts about human biology, such as digestion or dental health?

Who has fed her the line that there is something particularly nasty or scary about reproduction? If that is the school, then I would have a serious word with them.

My dd..yr6 ..had a lesson on periods with the school nurse last year when she was 10. I asked her about it and if there was anything she didn't understand although we had already discussed the subject at home as she had already asked. She was fine, I explained a couple of things she wasn't clear on and there a few "yuks" here and there but certainly no hysterics. I am curious how this lesson your dd attended was handled to produce such a response, had she no knowledge of periods at all? Frankly I feel that a lesson on periods for 12/13 year olds is a bit of a 'closing the stable door' situaton

I too think that's a bit peculiar and would be very worried about both the lesson, and my dd if that's how she reacted. A ten year old should surely have noticed that their mother and other female friends have periods? I learnt about periods from Judy Blume, and I don't think it was a good way to go. My mother never said anything until I started, and then only to complain when my knickers were bloody. My big sister (9 years older) asked if I had started, but unfortunately she was away at university when I did. I remember feeling utterly miserable about it and I was 13, so a lot older and more mature. At university I was amazed (and dh even more so) at how many male friends seemed to find periods a mystery. My children have known about periods for ages and ages because they come into the bathroom when I am on the loo, because I don't take them swimming when I have a period, and because sometimes I have period pain. they know this is quite normal, and that dd will also have periods. dd and I had a conversation the other day about how it was a pity periods didn't stop when you decided your family was finished (she really really wanted to go swimming!). She is seven at the moment, and accepts periods as a fact of life. I think that's the way it should be, because hey, they are a fact of life.

Duchesse, I have a lovely mother, who for some reason never had the sex/period talk with me- she thought that I 'wasn't ready'. I went to a Primary School that didn't give talks.

I figured it out myself through my older sister's magazines and liberal use of the Oxford English Dictionary! I was so offended when I asked my (also) nine year old friend (who still played with baby dolls)if she knew how babies were made and her mother had told her ages ago! It was incredibly embarrassing to me- I felt like the last one to find out about Father Christmas! It sounds stupid but I really felt betrayed.

When I started my periods at 11 I didn't tell my mother. She found out seven months later. In fact I didn't tell her anything personal after that.

Yes but my point is that every 10 yr old is utterly different. There is no chance of my daughter starting her periods at 10 as she turns 11 in a few weeks and has no breast development yet. Her similarly-aged friends are mostly in same boat. Only one of the 4 12-13 yr old girls in her school has started periods, the others have virtually no breast development either and are tiny in height (I have another theory about this but this is not the forum for it). Starting periods at 10 or 11 is still very much not the norm. The average is still something over 13 I believe.

Of course my daughter knows about periods. I have never been shy about them, they have been in the bathroom with me when I happen to be changing pads since they were tiny, and have asked questions. She was just not ready and willing to sit at 10 yr 4 months and have a forced talk about them. I'm willing to bet that there are many other children out there who are also not ready for that talk, but who are getting it forced upon them nonetheless.

And no I am not in the slightest bit worried about her refusal to take in this information. She will when she is ready. I worry more about the children forced to take it on board before they are ready.

and fwiw, I am not even sure (even though my own mother also let me find out for myself on this issue (which I had ample time for given that mine didn't start until I was over 15)) that school is quite the most sensitive forum for this very charged discussion. I think...well, apparently what I think doesn't matter, since I keep being shouted down.

I have strong views on the subject, and am very glad that my children will not get scared teacher demonstrating things with bananas and condoms. To my mind year 9 is quite early enough to even start discussing sexuality. Any sexual activity below 13 (well, below 16 obviously, but being realistic here) is criminal anyway, so why bother teaching them about it? They should never be in a situation where they are likely to have sex below that age anyway. They ought to be climbing trees, kicking a ball around and learning things, not blinkig well having sex.

justabout- erm?? There is only a circumstantial link between your two statements, not a causal link.

And I was bullied for wearing glasses, being English and being good at school. Bullies will bully for any reason, usually to do with being "different". You can't remove differences- we just have to learn to accept them in each other. Still not a good reason to withdraw one's child from sex ed if one sees fit.

Duchesse, you are completely wrong if you think that because your DD is small and undeveloped that she couldn't start he periods soon. The smallest and least developed girl in my DD's class (she is v petite and fragile looking) has started her periods, whereas lots of the more developed girls have not.

I wouldn't have been so annoyed, but my mother started her periods at 11! It's not like she didn't know it could happen. She's 5'10 and I'm around 6'1 BTW, it's not that we were heavy children.

My main reason for being pro sex and relationships education at a young age is that they're exposed to it anyway. TV, magazines, advertising etc. are full of sex and use sexuality. I wish they could all be climbing trees and unaware of it, but they're not. I don't mean that they're all of having sex. I mean that younger and younger girls feel the pressure to look a certain way, to straighten/curl their hair, to wear lip gloss etc. To not talk to them because the're not ready assumes that they aren't exposed to other sources of information- there've been a couple of threads lately about children googling sex/nudity.

I want sex ed that doesn't just explain the mechanics but also talks about respect for yourself and gives teenagers the confidence to say no to something they're not ready for. I think that that begins with talking to them from a young age and giving them (age appropriate) information over a long period of time. If you try and start when they're teenagers they're going to spend more time laughing than listening.

I think at 8-10 giving children the information about how their bodies are changing and why, as well as the changes that are going to come helps them to feel in control. I'd rather schools didn't have to do it, but I'd take them getting their information from schools rather than the media.

If you feel that your child isn't ready then of course you have the right to withdraw them. I'm sorry your DD had such a traumatic experience. But I'm still glad that they're giving the lessons.

I told my son about sex at age 4/5, he was fine very matter of fact, obviously not to much detail, he was fine about it. We have a very good relationship he is now 12 and can ask me anything he wants, and I will not judge, or be shocked, infact 2 minutes ago we were discussing erections!

I have a son, who knows what sex is, how you get pregnant, diseases, and the emotional and fun side of sex. I think that knowlwdge is power and by giving him information, when he has asked, or has needed can only help him and not hinder him. IMO we know our children best, and if you feel it isnt right then you decide that, but I feel 8 is not to young to have a small knowledge of the birds and the bees.

duchesse on Sat 05-Jul-08 15:25:15

"To my mind year 9 is quite early enough to even start discussing sexuality. Any sexual activity below 13 (well, below 16 obviously, but being realistic here) is criminal anyway, so why bother teaching them about it? They should never be in a situation where they are likely to have sex below that age anyway. They ought to be climbing trees, kicking a ball around and learning things, not blinkig well having sex."

If your school teaches the children to have sex, then their sex education must be very different from any school come across. IME sex education in the early years centers on:

preparation for the changes of puberty (this of necessity needs to come quite early to ensure that even early developers are prepared in time)

general biological education- like learning about any other aspect of animal biology (they can learn about lions without needing to tear cattle to bits- so they can learn about sex without having to do that either)

providing children with information in good time in order to empower them when the day comes that they are pressurised into having early sex - much easier to resist if you have the facts at your disposal and don't feel ignorant

There is absolutely nothing in this that stops children from climbing trees and kicking balls. I can assure you that dd is a perfectly normal child who is set on enjoying her childhood and has no intention of having boyfriends until she is a lot older.

She has recently had a health week which included education on sex, disability and drugs. I can assure that the message was not to teach them to take cocaine!

Sorry Duchesse still can't understand that a 10, nearly 11 year old would have such an extreme reaction to a talk on periods. What did she find so abhorrent about a perfectly normal bodily function that reduced her to having hysterics under a table for 30 mins? I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your right to allow your daughter to learn about reproduction in what ever way you see fit. Such is your right. I am just really curious as to how the school approached the subject to warrant such an extreme reaction. My dd is only a little older than yours and I can't imagine her having the same reaction.

The reaction to the period talk concerns me. At 10, to be that freaked out, does not bode well. Girls are starting earlier nowadays, and there are not always warning signs, particularly when they are not prepared to look out for them. How is the poor child going to react when she had blood in her pants, if she can't even bear it being talked about? She needs the talk, and if not from the school, from her mother, or a trusted female. No-one wants their children growing up too soon, but we can't protect them from nature, only prepare them.

Your dd will hear all about it the minute she sets foot in the playground, it's all they talk about for days after they have the lessons so I'm sorry but she's going to find out all about it anyway. Surely you would rather her hear it properly and accurately than a load of second-hand news which quite possibly will have been exaggerated in the telling.
Could you not borrow the videos from school so that you could watch them first, then you are fully prepared for any questions that she may have. Our school offers this to parents and many of them have taken it up.

Duchesse your terminology says a lot about your attitude to sex e.g.

"And no I am not in the slightest bit worried about her refusal to take in this information. She will when she is ready. I worry more about the children forced to take it on board before they are ready. "

refusal to take in information? forced to take it on board??

you make sex education sound like a nasty tasting medicine! do you want your children to think its nasty and be scared of it...actually you just said your daughter is scared of it, curling up in a foetal position. A pschiatrist would have a field day with that. What message have you been sending her abou sex?

I can't believe that this thread is about a nine yr old!? If the child were 7 maybe but at 9, he needs to know!! (Unless in the case of Hecate's children, where the parents can take the child out of school that day).

I mgiht be an idiot but I trust that what they are going to teach them is appropriate for their age and will not encourage them to have sex!! AT nine they find it baffling!

Better to know in advance about periods etc. I was quite shocked when mine came, even though I'd known four years in advance that it might come.