Is autism being used as an excuse for behaviour?

[abracadabra1111]

Child age 5 (not mine) - In school spun around with metal water bottle (like one of those Stanley cup things) which resulted in him wacking two other kids in the head with it. Child then cried about it because he was scared he’d get in trouble.

Childs mother said ‘it’s ok because he’s autistic and can’t help it and thank god we paid privately for the diagnosis so that the school understand his autism’

No punishment or correction to behaviour given.

YABU - Getting carried away at school and ‘accidentally’ wacking two kids is completely acceptable in a 5 year old autistic boy

YNBU - to be mortified that there’s zero compassion towards the two poor sods wacked by the bottle and think that autism is being used as an excuse.

No disability needs a formal diagnosis for the person to receive adjustments where needed. The Equality Act defines disability as a physical or mental impairment that has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on the ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities. Protection under the Act, including the duty to make reasonable adjustments, is based on whether that definition is met, not on formal diagnosis. The lack of a formal diagnosis can’t be used as a reason to do nothing.

And IME you are no more likely to get an autism diagnosis privately than through the NHS. Private clinicians are expected to follow NICE guidelines in the same way as the NHS. The reason private diagnoses are common is mainly down to people being frequently pushed towards private assessments because of poor NHS provision. NHS autism assessment waiting lists can top three years in many areas, whereas, private assessments can be arranged within weeks, and often without the mandatory NHS referral from a GP.

Unfortunatley there is still so much ignorance about autism and those that are the most severly impacted often get ignored .

i would suspect the reason that the conversion rate is higher with private providers is because the subsection of the population they are assessing is likely to be different to the people in NHS clinics. For example, the ££££s of charges from private providers might put people off who think they are borderline. The Fonagy report that was published a few days ago did not find any evidence of widespread overdiagnosis or misdiagnosis although, due to the pressures in the system, we are risking that scenario.

I think afew years ago, there was a debate demonstrating that several private telehealth clinics issued ADHD diagnoses after brief virtual screenings that skipped standard informant interviews and medical checks. While neurodiversity advocacy groups noted that many private providers maintain rigorous clinical standards, the investigation highlighted that inadequate private assessments carry a materially higher risk of false positives.

Fidgets, sensory toys etc can be useful in those cases. but it is finding the right one for your child that can be tricky, and it doesn't always work.

What do you mean by ‘genuine’ autism ? I often wish I could confer my own experience over years as a disability outreach worker when I see statements like this.

Typo. Meant to type genuinely autism.

The answer is yes, I have seen it unfold myself.

When my dc were in school, a couple of friends had a very close friend they had grown up with who was always a lazy, attention seeking hypochondriac. She had 2 children and there was zero parenting.

Both children started school still in nappies. Mum tried repeatedly to get the school to formally diagnose them with autism, the schools refused as no evidence of autism, only terrible parenting. Both children now young adults, mother still insists they are both autistic.

One of them did something extremely dangerous in school once. Thanks to the abysmal parenting of these children, they have no friends.

oh gosh. Yes this just reminded me of an incident where the child tried to decapitate a family member’s dog. I shouted NO to child and got told off because I was too loud and frightened the child. Natural reaction on my part to be fair.

And yet schools don’t assess for or diagnose autism. They are not HCPs.

Absolutely yes! My son was being targeted by a year 6 child when he was in year 4. When I spoke to the school they would always so ‘oh, he has problems, look at him!’ The child was autistic. This was a teacher saying this, so unprofessional of them!

In cases like this surely the child should be educated in a Send school by people with special training on how to handle the meltdowns etc.
Which they probably would be if Blair and his acolytes hadnt decided to put the children into mainstream education.
Now children are assaulting children, teachers and TAs are being run ragged, all because of Tony Blair and his "vision"

I had an autistic child in my class who one day, without provocation, grabbed the heads of two girls who were sitting at a picnic bench and slammed them into the table, then sauntered off like nothing had happened. He couldn't explain why he'd done it. They were both quite badly hurt.

The school engaged a play therapist who started taking him out twice a week, and a TA who worked with the play therapist to learn how to work with him.

He was supervised 1-2-1 by the TA on the playground who gradually started to invite other children to join games, outlining basic rules like gentle touch when "tagging", asking before playing, etc.

There was blame or punishments, but it was taken very seriously because children being injured is serious.

Autism is a reason for behaviours that occur solely as a result of having autism.

Much like my sister being blind is the reason she cant see rather than the excuse for her banging into things.

Ah, okay. The schools recommended, I suppose. So, whoever the experts were refused to diagnose.

Yes there are still some private healthcare providers who aren’t taking right to choose patients, and this depends heavily on the area people live in.

Although anyone can request an EHCP it’s likely to be rejected without evidence. A parent and educational setting submitting the application without input from other services are not likely to produce a workable EHCP as the local authority won’t commit to specialised support such as 1:1 care or an enhanced speech and language package. I imagine a very scaled down EHCP plan may work for a child who doesn’t have complex needs. But for those who do the local authorities way of working reactively rather than proactively is inappropriate and unsafe. A watertight EHCP needs evidence.

I'd say it just depends on the individual.

I've been verbally abused (totally unprovoked) in public before, and then shouted at by the person's companion that he/she is autistic so I'm not to say anything back in my own defence.

Of course is it. Autism and adhd are increasingly being used as either an excuse for bad behaviour and/or an excuse for lack of parenting. Also a significant number of parents ascribe normal but uncomfortable childhood development tantrums/defiance/boundary pushing/naughtiness etc as abnormal to avoid having to get their hands dirty dealing with it. It’s the new get out of jail free card for parenting.

You are conflating evidence and diagnosis.

Evidence is not the same as diagnosis. You can have a lot of evidence without having a diagnosis.

Also, the test for an EHCNA is relatively low and further evidence to inform the content of EHCPs can and is sought during EHCNAs. It doesn’t need to be available before an EHCNA is even requested or before the LA agrees to assess.

Already having had input from other services is not part of the legal test for an EHCNA or EHCP. Any LA requiring that is acting unlawfully. Parents do not have to accept such nonsense.

You can have a watertight EHCP without having a diagnosis.

If it keeps happening you can suggest he gets a soft plastic bottle instead.

I take it he's an only child? Most parents don't like one sibling hurting another one. Does this entitlement come through in other areas of life?

Yes to that 🙌 and in theory you should absolutely be correct. But the assessment as I have seen it is a session of observation at the educational setting (around 3/4 hours) followed by a 30 minute meeting with the staff and parents. So the outcome completely depends on how the child is feeling or the activities of that particular session. In my opinion it’s not enough to have a rounded picture of the child’s needs. Also the person carrying out the assessment doesn’t need to be a fully qualified educational psychologist, they can be an ‘assistant to’ the psychologist, and it doesn’t hurt to bear in mind they are working for and in the interests of the local authority who want to guard their funding.

The school can say what behaviours they have seen but they can't recommend for or against a diagnosis because it isn't their job. The school also aren't needed for a referral.

But the assessment as I have seen it is a session of observation at the educational setting (around 3/4 hours) followed by a 30 minute meeting with the staff and parents.

If you are meaning the EHCNA is like this, that is absolutely not a proper EHCNA. And again parents do not have to accept such rubbish.

The advice and information sought must not just be from an assistant EP. Again, parents do not have to accept this.

I completely agree that LA evidence is often inadequate, but that still doesn’t mean a diagnosis is needed.

You seem very over-involved with (one might say unhealthily fixated on) this child and his diagnosis. That seems strange given that you clearly aren't friends with his mother and don't seem to know much about even normal child development. Why would that be, do you think?

How come you were reading his private diagnosis report?

I don’t think that is the case now though because the Fonagy report published few days ago could not find any evidence of widespread misdiagnosis .