Is autism being used as an excuse for behaviour?

[abracadabra1111]

Child age 5 (not mine) - In school spun around with metal water bottle (like one of those Stanley cup things) which resulted in him wacking two other kids in the head with it. Child then cried about it because he was scared he’d get in trouble.

Childs mother said ‘it’s ok because he’s autistic and can’t help it and thank god we paid privately for the diagnosis so that the school understand his autism’

No punishment or correction to behaviour given.

YABU - Getting carried away at school and ‘accidentally’ wacking two kids is completely acceptable in a 5 year old autistic boy

YNBU - to be mortified that there’s zero compassion towards the two poor sods wacked by the bottle and think that autism is being used as an excuse.

This was my thought.

What makes you sure it wasn't an accident, op?

Honestly I find it a helpful sense check as to what most people really think of us despite what they may say to our faces.

My kid goes to a SEN school and all the parents are obsessed with SEND reform and how the 'majority' of the public wouldn't possibly support the government taking funds / EHCPs away from disabled kids. They believe the public are on our side. Massive echo chamber. The 'majority' of the public thinks my kid is an indulged brat and genuinely believe that if they had a few days with him and gave him a tough talking to he'd stop being weird and pull himself together.

The 'majority' of the public are not supportive of these kids getting access to funding their kids don't, and it's more convenient to believe with the right parenting SEN kids wouldn't need special adjustments. Because it's easier to think that way.

The 'majority' of the public don't seem to understand that our prison population is 95% SEN and maybe if we could re-think how we deal with SEN kids at the start of their education, maybe - just maybe - in 20 years our prisons will be slowly emptying.

But no, people don't think that way. Would require looking beyond the ends of their own noses.

Sounds like she has personal beef with this mum. Given she's read the diagnostic report they are either close friends or family members.

The problem here is the relationship between the OP and this mother. She doesn't need a friend like you and doesn't sound like you value her friendship much either. Step away.

I would first consider whether the parents have taken reasonable steps to prevent accidents. The child is only five and autistic, so there is limitation on how his behaviour can be managed.

However, now that the parents know he has difficulty using his water bottle safely, they should consider a lightweight plastic bottle or one with a silicone cover. If they are aware of the risk and continue to give him a “Stanley-type” bottle, that’s on the parents.

I don’t know that excusing behaviour is exclusive to autism to be honest, but rather just that parents (at least the ones I keep encountering) don’t police behaviour and most seem to be adopting a “not my problem” approach!

I have a 2 year old and a nearly 1 year old so spend a lot of time at soft plays/toddler groups/parks, places for kids but also places I’d expect parents to be parenting their children and very rarely do I see that.

I think this is a tricky one. Yes, there are instances where parents forgive the behaviour of their children and blame it on [something else] rather than properly parenting, but this is a separate issue from using autism to explain it.

DH and I come from strict upbringings and were in despair when traditional parenting techniques didn’t work on our kids (routines, reward systems, boundaries, consequences.) We thought it must be something we were doing wrong. It was even more difficult when we saw our kids around other children who were well-behaved and achieving well at school. We thought it must be us.

I read these articles that seem to pop up every few weeks about how autism is over-diagnosed and how it’s mostly lazy parenting. We were devastated when our children were diagnosed. It was such a shock to realise that they were never going to be academic all-rounders, and that they were always going to feel different and may struggle.

Although I would agree that there are many parents who may use autism [or anything, really] as an excuse for their children’s behaviour, the issue there I believe is this culture of [it’s someone-else’s-fault-ism] which has grown with the use of social media, rather than specifically autism.

Parents of kids with autism are struggling enough.

I'm guessing it's a sister in law that she doesn't like.

In what way is the assessment more rigorous and robust? Most private healthcare providers are used by the NHS right to choose system, it’s the same assessment whether it’s private or through the NHS. The assessment process has guidelines and criteria that must be followed to determine a formal diagnosis. There is a part where the parent has a lengthy meeting with a clinical psychologist and talks them through their child’s life from birth to present but that’s not enough to complete a diagnosis. There are 1:1 assessments with the child, observations within the educational setting and input from speech and language. If there are relevant reports from the NHS services the private team can also use and include these. It’s not as separate as you believe.

Any child at 5 could do that by mistake

I’m autistic and don’t think it is acceptable to blame poor behaviour on autism.

Autism to me isn’t a condition to be managed or excused, but just part of who I am. Whilst it may explain some of my behaviours, it doesn’t really justify them, if that makes sense. It’s a bit like saying “oh that man hit someone, but it’s ok because he’s a man.” Errr, no, it doesn’t work like that. Yes the fact someone is a man may make it much more likely that they behave aggressively than if they were a woman, but it doesn’t give them free reign to go ahead and behave in that way.

Autistic kids still need to learn right from wrong, it’s just that the way you teach them is likely to look a little bit different than how you teach neurotypical kids. Neurotypical kids might respond more to carrot and stick, a reward for good behaviour and punishment for bad, whereas an autistic kid responds to logic, they need to understand why the thing they did was bad behaviour, and punishing them or rewarding without explaining why you are doing so will just confuse them. And yes it works the other way too. I’ve been rewarded for good behaviour, completely misunderstood what it was I did that they considered good behaviour, and internalised the wrong lesson.

I think there was a poster on this site a few months ago who was a doctor and her husband was a teacher ( or it was the other way around). They said that they had never known a private autism assessment resulting in a negative diagnosis.
I also think a large Stanley cup is a bit silly to give a child.

So the child "accidentally" wacked TWO children with his metal bottle. One perhaps could be accidental but doing it twice is not.
The school doesn't seem to be addressing the issue so maybe the 2 victims should come along to school with their own metal bottles.....

Not 'most' providers. There are loads and loads of providers who offer "assessment", at the end of which parents walk out with a piece of paper that they think is a diagnosis, that isn't. For parents going private it's absolutely on them to confirm the qualifications and methodology of the professionals who are dealing with their kid as they can absolutely be ripped off.

I'm a pretty savvy educated person and when I was looking for a private doc for my son nearly got ripped off a few times by clinics with shiny buildings and fancy websites - thankfully I have a mate who is an NHS psychiatrist who was able to show me that these places were totally unqualified and the 'diagnosis' would have been worthless.

The whole sector needs mass regulation as it's the Wild West. Open to unethical parents who want special dispensation for their kids (I would say very few but must accept they probably exist - I know one for sure) and moreso desperate parents who want the best for their kids.

Well the situation she describes is the kid spinning in a circle whilst holding a bottle. So sort of like skittles, knocking people out of the way. That is an accident, though of course rubbish behaviour.

But yeah, an eye for an eye and all that. Arm all the 5 year olds to the teeth with water bottles and have them fight it out, hunger-games style.

slow clap

You messed up adding the sentence about private diagnosis. It would have been believable otherwise.

So take a step back. You obviously think she's a terrible mother. I would too.

And she probably doesn't need to be in such a close relationship with someone who rants about her on the internet.

Not saying go no contact - close family member this would have further ramifications. But just don't get involved. This isn't an autism thing, it's a 'your family member is raising a brat' thing.

If you have safeguarding concerns (and yes, I do think buying false diagnoses to permanently label a child is a concern) - raise them.

Perhaps this merely reflects that parents seeking private autism assessment would need to be pretty convinced that autism is present before parting with upwards of £2,000. While i have no doubt that the quality of private providers varies and requires greater regulation, at present there are no reliable statistics to prove or disprove the anecdotes trotted out. The NHS itself diagnoses autism in at least 75% of cases.

Its a massive spectrum and no two chikdrem will be the same
Sometimes autism can be a reason for the behaviour
That doesnt however mean parents shouldnt parent.

Mum of 3 ND’ers, two with ASD.

Autism is a reason for behaviour, not an excuse for poor behaviour and shitty parenting. If anything parents need to be even more clear and firm than with NT kids because they often don’t join up the dots appropriately. One of mine would monitor everyone with a clipboard and a rules list if he could. And it was hard to point out that yes, he’s right that Toby didn’t follow the rules about XYZ but writing it down and then reporting back to Teacher wasn’t going to win him any popularity with his classmates. (TBH he didn’t care. “Bad Toby” needed to be stopped, as far as he was concerned.)

OP this mum, the way you’ve painted her, sounds like a dick.

As nicely as possible ❤️ what you’ve described isn’t a formal diagnosis and would count for very little towards evidence for an EHCP or access to ongoing support. The private healthcare providers with appropriate clinicians who are able to assess and diagnose ASD are being outsourced by the NHS right to choose scheme to offload patients and reduce waiting lists.

I don’t see how a young child spinning whilst holding a metal bottle which then accidentally hits two other children could ever be attributed to autism. He was being a prat and his mum didn’t tell him to stop. Part of parenting, whether your child is ND or NT, is to tell them off when they misbehave. Many children with autism are highly intelligent, even if non verbal and they understand instructions. You should never assume incompetence.

My 6 yo is non verbal technically but I prefer to say non conversational now as that’s the final verbal hurdle we must overcome. If I could see he was at risk of hurting someone I would tell him to stop. If he didn’t stop, I would remove him from the situation. Basically whether this child has autism or not, his mum is just a bit crap.

But surely you realise the spectrum is huge
Some autistic kids dont have the capacity to learn right from wrong
Although obvuiously when thats the case parents are usually hyper vigilent.

You may smirk, but if the schools are not prepared to protect children from assault, they will have to learn how do it themselves

If it was an accident, what would be the point in punishing the dc? Surely an apology is what's needed?

I will never understand the enthusiasm some adults have to want to issue punishments to dc. It's a bit creepy, really.

My son is autistic. If he was being silly and it resulted in someone getting hit in the head I’d have a stern word about how serious a bump on the head can be and tell him water bottles are for drinking not spinning around with. I’d do the same for my two other neurotypical kids. Not exactly a “telling off” but a correction is needed imo.