AIBU to take a hard stance with the school on this

[JustAnotherWhinger]

I worked in schools for 20+ years so I’m very aware of how hard school staff work. I’ve also had a good relationship with this school for years and have had 3 kids through it already.

DN lives with us as his Mummy died. He’s doing amazing given the circumstances. He started school in September and loves it.

Since the second week he’s been going to the breakfast club three days a week. It’s run by school staff. The one he goes to (they have two separate ones) is staffed by two TAs and they take 25 kids. DN was desperate to go as his wee bestie, who lives on our street, goes and we’ve been happy to encourage anything that helps him settle.

However, for the 6th time since he started the TA who does the door said “say bye to Mummy…”

This leaves DN horribly upset and it’s getting worse each time it happens. Every time the TA apologises, tells DN it’s so difficult to remember every and she’ll try her best not to do it again. Today DN was so upset he ended up being sick and has missed the whole day of school.

Last week the other TA took over doing the door and DN had a brilliant week. This week the forgetful TA has upset him twice. I get that learning lots of kids names is difficult, but how the fuck do you forget an orphaned kid that you’ve upset numerous times?

My AIBU is this - To stop going to breakfast club you have to give a month’s notice and pay for that notice. I’ve told the school today I’m withdrawing DN effective immediately and won’t be paying.

The TA is either making absolutely no effort or she cannot recognise faces, in which case she shouldn’t be doing the door.

DH thinks in the interest of the relationship with the school we should pay for the notice, but I don’t agree. DN wants to go. I want him to go. He cannot go because they are repeatedly upsetting him.

I am amongst the worlds most annoying critical thinkers. I will find another perspective in almost every situation and I fully expected to find at least several when I saw the title of your post.

We are also quite a principled family and would indeed part with money to remain civil with a valued organisation even if there was a reason dispute it.

Dont give them another penny and raise it with the safeguarding lead. You gave her every opportunity to learn, acknowledge she had a working memory issue in that area, and change approach. She did not. The impact on your DN significant.

I think you are being more reasonable than most would be.

Good luck, may your DN find his days a tiny bit easier now.

He's not long lost his mum has he ?
So it's still raw and he's still trying to come to terms with it
Little guy will be ok some days but then not others
All the more reason for HT to come down firmly on the TA
However
There are going to be lots of incidents where you are called his mummy ..id be surprised if you said it only happened at school
People will assume he is yours ,and every time you correct them he remembers and gets upset.
You can't remove him from every situation that happens in
And by making a fuss in front of him or speaking in front of him just hammers the point home his mum has gone
I think I'd be having a chat with him ,it's really sad he hasn't got his mum ,it's absolutely ok to cry when she's mentioned,and people are not trying to upset him by mentioning her ...and telling him you love him just like a mummy loves her child ,and you will never replace his mummy ,but people make mistakes and they can't always know your not his mum ..
Something like that anyway
I mean the school definitely are not helping this matter
But I don't think removing him is the answer
It's more upheaval,more distress and then more upset trying to settle him in to another school ...and if the same thing happens again...what move schools again...
And you have a difficult life already with one at Sen school ..don't make it harder all round trying to find a new school so you are driving to two schools twice a day ..you need the boys in the same school as part of them bonding to be a family

She is totally out of line. 25 children is not that many. Surely the supervisors need to have a grain of intelligence otherwise it could be dangerous. They must have to remember which children have allergies and other things.Even a child can tell you something about nearly all their classmates within a few days of starting school.

I think speaking with the head again would be reasonable. They need to collect a number of instances and speak to a staff a number of times before any disciplinary action, so go ahead and supply that info.

You sound like you're doing a great job with your little nephew in difficult circumstances. Well done.

As a retired teacher but going into schools on a supply basis I’m horrified that after this length of time a TA cannot remember a child’s name. Does she have a memory problem or something?
Poor mite having to face this every day. As an aside have the school thought about support for him through Winstons Wishes.

I don’t think I’d be able to prevent myself, after the 3rd time or so, from replying “it’s not that fucking difficult, do NOT say that too him again”.

Especially when, these days, drop offs are not all mummy- many are dads, grandmas, child minders. So I just don’t believe it can be that hard to get right.

YANBU - in fact, as one can't know everyone's situation, I never refer to a female grown up with a child as 'mummy' - I always just say "don't forget to say goodbye" - why does the role of the person matter? If I find a distressed child or child in its own, I don't ask "where's your mummy?" but "where's your grown up?" - same if they're misbehaving, I ask to speak to their grown up - maybe they're from a separated family and with dad, maybe like your situation their mum (or dad) has died (or just left), maybe they're adopted, maybe they're in Foster care, maybe parents take it in turns, etc, etc. In short, you should never assume. It is therefore doubly wrong if this TA who in fact does know the circumstances, keeps 'getting it wrong' - if they find it hard to remember every child's circumstance then they should use the neutral approach that I have adopted. It's the same with gender - maybe not so much at primary, but my daughter has friends who use the pronouns they/them - if you don't know this with someone you don't know, then that is the most inclusive option.

I’m a swimming teacher and it’s commonplace with us too

some people don’t have mums, dads, one or both, some people’s grandparents or foster carers bring them.

I suppose it is unusual if you haven’t heard it before

Yes OP is be furious at them if I was you, 6 times is negligent x

Your poor DN. This is disgraceful behaviour from a care giver to children.

I think you should absolutely escalate it as a formal complaint. It needs to be factual, in writing and through the school complaint procedure.

I would not remove the child from the classroom if generally they are happy. If they are happy, you need to keep them stable.

However the TA and senior leadership team need their arses handed to them for not ensuring this was a one off slip of the tongue

On Monday ask for a meeting with the head teacher and explain why you feel you have no choice but to give notice - and given the reason why you will not be paying. Then add that your DN is keen to go to the breakfast club, but the only thing that will induce you to let him return is a cast iron guarantee that there will be no repeat at all, ever.

Their response will guide your next steps.

The TA should be able to say something like 'say bye to Auntie' or merely 'say bye'. It isn't hard.

She's being an absolute moron. Why can't she just say 'say bye bye ' in fact she should be saying this to all kids. Sounds like she's not very good at her job. You definitely need to say something. So sorry your little one is being put through this by an idiot adult.

This is a really great answer

You’ve had some good advice.

We had a problem TA for a while, it wasn’t something I knew about until our son started schooling avoiding, and like your nephew he was becoming so distressed he was physically ill.

I put in an official complaint, as part of my complaint I asked for their action plan to prevent it ever happening again being shared with me in writing.

They attempted to say the TA had innocently forgotten who he was, which was even more concerning as I pointed out that he has allergies and an epipen.

I did get my complaint resolved including their written action plan, our issue did happen once more, after that occasion the member of staff lost their job.

Lots of great advice here already - you're doing great OP 💐

Question - do you know, is this a TA who works in the main school by day ? Or a breakfast club only member of staff? I ask because at our school the wrap around care clubs are all staffed by people who only work in those breakfast and after school clubs. If one of them is ill an actual teacher or TA will step up for a day, but they hate to do it because it's out of their contracted hours.

At our school it's really hard to find good competent folks willing to do these hours. It's not a teaching role. They do need to be DBS checked but apart from that the main requirement is to consistently turn up! It's peculiar short hours with low pay.
This leads to 2 things:
first, bluntly, the people staffing the clubs aren't the same standard as those who would be employable as full timeteaching staff.
secondly, the school will be reluctant to risk losing them because it's such a pain finding folk to do the hours.

Obvs if your schools clubs are run by teaching staff then ignore me! But if not it's a bit of knowledge which might shine a light on why they are protecting this woman to some extent, and why she might seem a bit less on the ball than you'd expect from teaching staff.

That's awful, poor little guy, surely the TA would be so ashamed the first time that they'd remember after that. 6 times is very questionable.

We’re a little over a year after losing his mum. He’s doing very well with it, bit obviously starting school was huge for him.

We do have other instances of it and he’s actually remarkably good with it. Sometimes it upsets him and he knows that’s ok. Fairly often he catches people completely off guard by saying “That’s X, my mummy is in heaven” and then gets on with his day.

The specific issue with this one is that she says “say goodbye to your Mummy” and he gets very upset because he already said goodbye to his mummy forever. He’s properly realised in the last few months what forever means. (And I have explained this multiple times to the TA, to the class teacher and to the Deputy Head).

Obviously he sometimes gets upset at mention of his mummy and thats entirely understandable. This one is just particularly cruel because it’s a phrasing that really upsets him. He knows it’s ok to cry. He talks about her whenever he wants. We’ve had good guiding through it by the play therapists his Mummy set up while she was ill and Winston’s wish.

I’m not moving him school. That was never a consideration, hence explaining to the poster who suggested it why it doesn’t work. I’m simply removing him from breakfast club because the school currently cannot keep him safe there.

thank you

Shes a TA in the school. The before and after school clubs are run by school staff.

Somewhat cruelly they, and the holiday playscheme, used to be run by a volunteer group I chaired, but we didn’t re-open after lockdown.

Thanks everyone

There is no reason for the phrase “Say goodbye to your Mummy” to be used at all. It should just be “Say goodbye”. That avoids parents/grandparents/Trans people/carers being mislabelled in one fell swoop.

Hello OP,

no advice that would add anything beyond much of the great advice given here already. Just wanted to say what a great job you’re doing. 💐

I’m trying to understand why she would do this, because surely so many times cannot be accidental. There’s such an easy and standard fix, she must be choosing to do this to him. Maybe she thinks that her shtick works well for children in ‘normal’ families and why should she have to change it for just one. (Similar to people who complain when asked not to include whatever allergen in packed lunches. And ignoring the fact that he won’t be the only one being dropped off by someone who isn’t his mum.)

Or she might think that there’s no point pretending it hasn’t happened, he needs to toughen up and get used to the fact that his mother has died. Maybe she expects that eventually he won’t react and this will mean she has helped him get over his mother’s death.

Or she just enjoys picking on vulnerable 4 year olds.

In any case she is completely unsuitable in that role and should be disciplined. Even if they take her off the door, I would still be worried what she’s saying to him once he’s in there.

Or I guess it’s possible that she’s so dim she can’t remember basic and very important information for 24 hours, but that’s just another reason that she shouldn’t be there.

Complain loudly and ask how they intend to protect your DN from this woman.

If she can’t remember a boy whose mother died who she upset, how does she remember the children she works with in the school day? What rough level they are at, how to motivate them etc? I’m cross that our taxes are paying for someone so cruelly uncaring. Is she unfit for the job?

I do your doing great ,and I also think the HT needs to be putting the TA on warning now .. because 6 times is absolutely rediculous..unless I read that wrong .
Once of twice ok ..if she's rushed ..but 6 times no that's rediculous and the HT needs to come down firmly on her ..or actually remove her from that role
Id do that first ,if he's settled in the club ,why should he be moved because someone can't do their job properly.. because basically that is what it comes down to

You should tell the headteacher what has been happening. It is something he/she should be aware of. It the matter is not resolved to your satisfaction, you could invoke the school’s complaint procedure, details of which should be on the school’s website.