To be appalled that parents need to be supported by government to potty train their child

[Wisefishswimpast]

That^^

Why are these parenting fails happening? - not potty trained for starting school, tooth extractions in young children, rising obesity rates….

Is there no accountability?
Why is this happening?

YANBU - parenting standards have declined which is terrible

YABU - this is how things are because….<explanation>

I know there will be exceptions to the above, for example certain health conditions, late maturation of signals between brain and bladder. I am referring to the more widespread rise in these instances.

It's the fragmentation and increasing isolation of society. In the not too distant past, people used to actually spend time with friends/family pretty much every day. They shared experiences and offered support face to face. Now all most people do is go home and stare at screens. It's limiting our ability to both complete basic care of ourselves and other and also removing any support networks that used to exist. I fully believe it's the effects of tech.

Agreed. It's the same naivety that thinks that the only thing missing in the homes of some families is money. Hence the belief that all the Govt needs to do is give these families more money and they will miraculously turn into fabulous parents.
As you say, it does no one any good to shy away from acknowledging tis, but then that is part of the bigger picture of how we got to the stage of four-year-olds wearing nappies.

Yes, of course, but non-disposable nappies add more layers to the process - changing them plus soaking them, washing them and drying them - so it's more of a chore.

I'm sure there are useless/lazy parents out there, but there are also lots of loving parents trying their best.
I do think the swing from authoritarian parenting towards child-led/gentle has maybe gone too far.
There are lots of young parents now who are scared of making their children do anything or upsetting them in case it causes trauma.
Read any thread here about tooth brushing or potty training and there will be some loud voices shouting that brushing your child's teeth without consent or pushing potty training when the child isn't interested is storing up long term problems.
In the 90s it was easier to parent as there was an awful less judgement, much less information or methods, and some things - like tooth brushing or potty training or a good night's sleep was just seen as a universal good and your job as a parent was just to get it done. It didn't need to be gentle, playful or child led.

Is it because so many children are in nursery from a few months old? Not blaming nurseries but its not 1:1 care and teaching these things as they happen
I know many people do this because both working, grandparents still working, cant afford to live near family who could help, cant not work because of the interest rates.

Having it all? Doing it all more like.

I think though that it wasn’t simply a question of parental laziness in the past - with cloth nappies you can feel that you’re wet and it’s much easier for small children to make the connection between a wet nappy being uncomfortable and choosing to use the potty.

I have no answers for the other things though! We’re a bookish family so always had them around and our children saw us reading our own books when we could snatch a rare moment. And I’m very sensitive so never allowed my children to be rude to me. In turn they are very sensitive and are very well-behaved without me having had to do much!

Stop making excuses!

It’s actually the other way round. Nursery attending kids are more likely to be potty trained.

more excuses

Do you think there's a fundamental difference between parents today and parents of years gone by? Or are you more persuaded by cause and effect?

Maternity leave is up to a year now so I suspect there are far fewer babies in nursery at a few months old than there used to be.

My friends daughter was only just trained by the start of reception.

The reason was that my friend absolutely believed that her daughter would do it herself when she was ready. This was bollocks.

She was an absolute state about her starting without being toilet trained, but just couldn’t see that it was something she had to initiate and lead as a parent. She did eventually clock on and persisted, and Lo and behold it only took a few weeks.

I think the idea of child led everything is so damaging.

"Most families need two working families just to survive." This is it in a nutshell. Time available to spend helping kids reach important milestones has been slashed and families are absolutely burnt out. Yes, by poverty, and by struggle, by capitalism wringing them out, by shit jobs, by community slipping away, and by the alienation of living online. My kids were potty trained, can read well, could speak and walk at appropriate ages etc. However, we have an above average income, secure housing, good health, family support, and were able to be part time during the early years. We STILL found it incredibly difficult to get through life and retain sanity. I often wonder how the fuck families are getting through without all these advantages. The vast majority really do not deserve judgement and will be working their arses off to give their kids the best they can. Having said that, I also think people in their thirties and younger lack both social and life skills - this is a whole generation of people who have been let down. Social media, screen time and abysmal behaviour from those who should set the standard have seriously eroded our culture and our society.

I absolutely agree. In fact I think it is utter madness and I am just wondering when the penny is going to drop how ridiculous it is that the parent is not in charge anymore.

It isn't either or. There are all sorts of reasons people may be crap parents but it doesn't change the fact that they are crap parents

No, it's not childcare. In East Germany all children were in full time childcare from a young age and they were potty trained young.

What does nursery before 1 year old have to do with anything. If anything nursery will help because they see their peers being potty trained.

We had a really tough time potty training DD1, in hindsight we waited too long.

DD2 regularly goes on the potty at 14 months, we have definitely learnt from our mistakes.

Not asking this as a dig, more out of genuine curiosity and I’m open to hear how others did it whilst working, but how did you potty train your children?

My partner and I work full time and both took three days off to potty train our 2.5 year old (I refused to do it alone). We had kicked the can down the curb a few times though and we were utterly exhausted by the end of the five days (we did it over a long weekend). I also felt so guilty sending him back into nursery not ‘fully’ trained.

So I can see why you have older children in nappies still. Not saying it’s right but I kind of get it. That being said parenting is tough and you have to suck it up sometimes for the benefit of your child.

Prior to 1996 most people managed to potty train their children.

The government have always sent out health/parenting advice. This isn’t anything new

I had that response to phone calls in secondary from 2000-2018. In fact, we had parents who switched off their phones so that they couldn't be contacted.

How so? If it was just about lazy, feckless parenting then these pilot schemes wouldn't have made a difference would they? And they did - so lack of knowledge and advice was clearly an issue for some parents.

It drives me mad that whenever some issue comes up in the news, the response is always that schools need to do something about it or it should be part of the curriculum. Parents don't seem to think they have any responsibility to teach their children anything.

Maybe it’s where you lived.

I’d consider it a basic fruit. Been eating it since I was a kid. My kids know what a mango is, usually see it in store and like to get the fresh ones when they are on sale. There’s also mango lassi, mango chutney, mango sorbet. I’ve lived in the States and here in England and mangoes have been available.