To be appalled that parents need to be supported by government to potty train their child

[Wisefishswimpast]

That^^

Why are these parenting fails happening? - not potty trained for starting school, tooth extractions in young children, rising obesity rates….

Is there no accountability?
Why is this happening?

YANBU - parenting standards have declined which is terrible

YABU - this is how things are because….<explanation>

I know there will be exceptions to the above, for example certain health conditions, late maturation of signals between brain and bladder. I am referring to the more widespread rise in these instances.

You don't need signs or language to potty train. If you start really early, and I mean early, it becomes a habit to go at fixed times of the day, and the habit evolves into "real" continence.

As adults we pretty much go to a schedule. This can be learned. We all go to the loo first thing in the morning, last thing at night, and before leaving the house ...... Toileting is as much habit as feeling or communicating need.

She didn't learn it via 'language' though, she learnt it way earlier than that. She was placed on a potty at regular intervals throughout the day when she was most likely to wee or poo (first thing in the morning for wees, after food for poos, and developed an association between the potty and toileting.

Read up on elimination communication, they start from birth in many african countries - this didn't work for us as DD was born in the depths of winter and always out and about in multiple layers in a sling and then later a back carrier.

There is no other developmental milestone where we intentionally hold our baby/ children back artifcially, 'until they are ready'!

The only thing I'm smug about is that I only had to deal with shitty nappies for 12 months!!!

As well as those physical needs, many are coming in well below the expected level of development in their language and social skills, so more interventions are needed, on top of the personal care. There are not enough hours in the day and it really shouldn't be on the teachers head when those children are not meeting standardised targets in July!

My ds was the same. He just didn't seem to be able to grasp potty training. It was such a struggle and I felt like a terrible parent. It turns out he is autistic but I didn't know at the time. Dd came along after him and it was like day and night, she just got it. There was no 'training' really.

I don't think that suddenly a lot of parents have just said fuck it, won't bother potty training little Johnny. Something is obviously going seriously wrong somewhere in society for this to be such an issue.

I'm in Ireland where there is 2 free years of preschool from the age of 2.5. Most providers won't allow children to start if the are still in nappies so the culture here is very much toilet trained by the September that they would be starting preschool unless there are SEN involved.

This

Bring back terry nappies! Back in the early 70s when our two were in nappies, once they were walking they couldn't wait to get out of the wet, saggy things into proper underwear and both willing let themselves be potty-trained at 18 months. Modern disposables are just too comfortable and convenient, so the incentive to stop using them isn't there.

I honestly think teachers are able to discern quite quickly if you are a decent parent, even when they don’t get things on a set timeline. So in that case I certainly wouldn’t beat yourself up.

They do. The parental attitude or response when a teacher 'has a quick word' can tell you volumes.

I agree with this completely.

There are loads of parents who are loving, do their best, yes they make mistakes and have bad days, we all do, but overall they know it's their responsibility to raise their kids right. Then there are full on useless, abusive, neglectful parents who shouldn't have been allowed to have kids at all. And obviously a whole range in between.

But there's a massive culture of "parenting is hard, woe is me" and it's infuriating. Oh it's just a snapshot, oh you don't know how their day is going, maybe there's Sen, what if they're poor, you don't know real tiredness unless xyz...

Piss off mate, I've got an autistic son whose record for being awake is 2am till 9pm, we both work (albeit we've taken "lower" jobs to fit around his needs, money is tight but at least we're staying sane!) he was potty trained at 2, he's almost 7 now and doesn't have a tablet, we eat at the table most nights, we're firm but gentle - he thrives off routine and structure but he's amazing, we do Lego together, parks in all weathers, reading for god knows how long as it helps him wind down, we watch films together.

I know this seems like I'm being smug or whatever, I'm really not. It's depressing getting called a "perfect parent" for just doing the fucking basics.

At what point do things like this become neglect though? It’s all very well papering over the cracks but what is really happening at home and why isn’t that being dealt with.

I have a friend who is head of foundation at a primary school. As a senior leader in the school one of her now main jobs is to get kids out of nappies. She does well with them, gets them dry they go home at half term and come back pissing themselves.

Over 15 years ago, I was praised by the Reception TA about my son's dining habits. He was a young 4, the youngest in his Reception class with already showing SEN traits, which in a school that mostly supported middle-class academic children, was causing a few issues. He was able to use cutlery, and push peas on to the back of his fork. He ate well including salad and vegetables. He did this because I (and his dad) had taught him. She was surprised enough to mention it - I don't know if her judgment about SEN was the reason for her surprise. The only reason I am posting is that even 15 years ago reception age children were not being shown by their (academic, professional, prosperous) parents how to eat properly. So it isn't surprising to me that this is still a problem.

My friend and my sister in law were reception teachers until they retired last year, and from what they've said, this is definitely an issue.
It's the 'they'll teach them that (potty training/manners/dressing themselves/eating properly) at school' attitude of far too many parents these days.
That, entitlement, and being glued to their phones every waking hour.

Did this trend start with the availability of pull-ups? I decided not to use these and toilet training was SOOO hard. The worst thing ever, mess and accidents and wet floors, but at least they were dry and clean in about six weeks. I was advised not to make things too comfortable for them, and I suspect that this is what pull-ups do, and it drags on, to reception and pre-school for the unfortunate teachers to deal with.

Sorry, that sounded really negative. It works both ways.

If the parent is unbothered and says something like, so what you going to do about it? - that tells you a lot.

Similarly if a parent is asking follow up questions and how can they help - that also tells you a lot (more positive!).

We have teeth brushing in our school too.
Quite a few in nappies. TAs do this. Teachers obviously don't do that as we can't leave the class.

I clicked on this thread because today somebody asked how I potty trained my two. Quite honestly I couldn’t remember! Each stage seems hard but then you move on and forget.

I do remember taking a change of clothes whenever we went out, buying cute cartoon character underwear that would be a pity to get wet and keeping nappies at night until about 3yo. Apart from that, plenty of encouragement (saying “psssst” gets them going!), regular trips to the potty (so you can check what they’ve done) or the booster seat and reading a book to them “one page one push” for doing a poo.
Both were clean and dry by day in the summer before they went to playschool. Who wants a cold wet sponge between your legs when you’re trying to explore?

But please don’t say we need to bring back shame! DD’s playschool had a volunteer pipì lady (!) who would jolly them off to the bathroom if they asked or had an accident.
Early days, we saw a little boy hysterically begging her not to tell his mother he’d dirtied himself. “Of course I won’t tell her!” she said, hanging the plastic bag of clothes on his hook. Obviously that mother had tried shaming tactics…

Social services are so over stretched that (at least in my area) they can only really take action once it becomes 'risk to life'.

Until then, school is the only option to help.

I think parents managed to potty train their own children before surestart. Let’s stop blaming politicians and start recognizing that some parents are not parenting anymore.

When mine were little (17 and 27 now) there was a weekly baby group at the village hall. The health visitor was there so you could just drop in and chat to her.
You didn't need to make an appointment. You didn't need to wait for your official developmental check.
You could see other parents (usually Mums).
It's gone now.
All this chipping away at services that support parents has an impact.

When I went to infants school in 70’s we had visiting dentist, eye check, hearing check, weight, nit nurse and all vaccines. We had milk and old fashioned school dinner. The teachers lined us up to visit loo and to make sure we washed our hands. We had a toothbrush at school and were given tablets to chew which turned your teeth red if you hadn’t brushed properly. It seems highly interventionalist now but should we go back to those days? I’m at a loss to know why so many children are unready for school nowadays. Maybe the same attention and support that’s given to breastfeeding should be given to potty training?

Oh yes let’s blame the Tories. Not the feckless can’t be arsed parents.

Probably because it’s getting worse every year!

Thatcher, Thatcher, the milk snatcher!

Not really, no. There are thousands of videos out there from educators, there's comments in this thread from people who have experienced it themselves. So either they're all lying/insane or you're underestimating the problem.