To think the government need to make disruptive pupil behaviour the parents' problem not the school's?

[GoodChocolate]

Low level and more serious disruptive behaviour is having a serious impact on children's education and teachers' health and wellbeing.
I propose a very, very consistent system of mini -exclusions whereby for every instance of low level disruptive behaviour (eg talking when they are not supposed to be talking )
The following procedure applies

1)the child has 3 chances a day.one initial warning One final warning and on the third occasion the child is sent to the office and the parents sre summoned.
2) The parent must be at the school within 60 minutes of the call
3) From the time the child leaves the school they are not allowed back until both
a) a full 24 (not counting weekends) has elapsed.
AND
b) the parent has completed an hour long very interactive virtual parenting course.Tbis happens every time the child receives a mini exclusion

If the parent fails to present themselves at tge school within the 60minutes this is treated as child abandonment and an escalating series of fines imposed, followed eventually by prosecution
If the course isnt done in time for the child go return to school after the 24 hour mini exclusion, then this is treated as unauthorised absence.
In cases of hitting ,swearing. Spitting etc no chances are given.
The parents and their employers are going to getboretty sick of this pretty quickly and sort their kids out.

I think this plan is flawed because the majority of children are not disruptive and can be managed with far less draconian behaviour management that a lot of schools already use.

Those children who arent able to respond to those types of behaviour techniques very often have sen and are not especially likely to respond to there parents being very stressed and losing thier jobs either. They need something different and more substantively supportive.

I sit through a lot of pupil exclusion meetings and whilst sen is a massive risk factor to being excluded. So is shit life. seriously some of these kids lives, anyway, often those with shit life have a parent that can get there in 90mins to avoid a fine.

So basically to me the only peoole penalised by this concept are working parents of disabled children who need more support in school.

Other groups not affected.

I think it's a bit of both actually. They do need to be taught it as well.

Or you just cant command authority, like i said, not like teachers of old.

This is great to hear - understanding the kids and trying to get on their level will allow them to feel safe. I think teachers who have this ability and creativity will earn respect far more than those who just dish out detentions. Endless detentions just lose their power. It becomes normalised.

Thanks so my son who has tourettes should be kicked out of school and be "my problem"
Would you like to explain exactly how im supposed to stop him making his vocal ticks when no dr can and its part of his medical condition ie TOURETTES? Or is he just not allowed an education?

I will gladly pick up my son @GoodChocolate if he’s disrupting his class due to his ND behaviour. Please let my head teacher and the parents of my GCSE and A-level classes know I can disrupt their lives too.

you mean the ones with a cane hanging in the corner? or the ones that the kids are too scared to come to with a sfeguarging issue?

I would also worry that angry parents called to pick up kids for talking etc may abuse their kids out of that anger. Especially the parents that don’t really care. Kids are then at home with them. So the kid has lost their safe space. Schools play a huge role in safeguarding kids. The OPs system would just cause more trauma.

it’s clear that some people on the thread would be happy for kids to be beaten. But I think the majority of us want our kids to be happy and enjoy school. Happy kids will be more likely to learn.

Which is why sending them home doesn't help

There are many SEN children who don't fit in a SEN school but who mainstream require more resource to support them. They aren't necessarily disruptive but what do you do with those kids? Having looked at secondaries recently, I felt very much like my kind, gentle and academic child with SEN was more hassle than its worth for most mainstream secondaries because she's got an EHCP. If her needs fitted into a neat box then it would be different but they don't.

However she wouldn't get into specialist without us paying thousands of pounds of reports which make her sound a certain way so she fits into a school. This is what many parents who do want their child in a specialist setting have to do. There would be no specialist that matches her needs as they stand and as her EHCP stands. Realistically I anticipate she will end up at mainstream and fall apart as the LA won't fund her placement properly. I'm aware of the strain it will put on the teachers as well and they'll also be dealing with me emailing them worrying about incidents that have happened which impact her safety. This will then impact my relationship with the school.

The whole thing is a nightmare.

Meanwhile I'm aware that at her junior school there about 6 or 7 other children in her class with additional needs. She's probably the least disruptive (one of the most compliant in her class) but equally one of the most difficult to support as in many ways, those who are disruptive are easier to support as they have similar needs to each other.

I have so much sympathy for teachers trying to juggle all these conflicting needs but empathy for the children whose needs are not being met and fear for the future of my own child.

What about parents who have adopted traumatised children and are already doing everything in their power to support their child in an evidence led way?

Adoptive parents are full and legal parents, often supporting vulnerable children who haven't had the same advantages in life as many of their peers.

Recovery for these children takes years, not a video parenting course. Children recover through positive relationships with their parents, trusted adults and peers.

Exactly. I am a TA and I know before I can do anything else for our most vulnerable pupils they need to trust me and that trust isn’t easy to gain especially in a system which is currently designed to fail them.

So much of the job is about building relationships but sadly the pressure on school staff make that so hard to do. I know by taking that time to build relationships with the most vulnerable I am also failing others who I haven’t got the time to do that with.

don’t be so fucking ridiculous.

Honestly it feels like we’ve just reached this place where everything we try will be futile bar very expensive ‘management’ places which just keep them from blowing up before they get released into the public at adulthood.

My son is now in Year 8. As a parent of a ND child and a teacher I have spent so many years feeling guilty. He’s getting harder to control in the puberty years but I have to take a step back and realise it’s not my fault. It’s not his fault. It’s not his teacher’s fault. It’s the system - the same system that is making the OP and others like them blame our children.

Yup. For some kids , sending them home means learning even more or the same or putting them for even longer in an unsafe environment. Great stuff.

What system is that? There is no conspiracy. Something has happened which has caused kids emotional development to go very wrong. I don’t know what, I won’t say I know what. But school really isn’t that different to when I was there, if anything it’s more accommodating - we didn’t have hall passes, sensory rooms and so on. Yet still this nightmare for all continues.

The main issue here is the OP wants a one size fits all approach and one size doesn’t fit all because everyone has such different life experinces.

We are getting more and more children in who, ten years ago would not have been in main stream, children who will run out of the class multiple times a day, children who just sit and scream and shout. So many children with anger issues. Not to mention the medical conditions we have to deal with, children with severe diabetes, feeding tubes, we had a child with a stoma. Getting hit, kicked and bit on a regular basis. We also have children with global delay, Children who need 1:1 support to complete work. I don’t know any teachers that don’t care about the children in their class most go above and beyond to make sure the children get everything they need. Also it’s mainly the TAs in the firing line for behaviour and looking after medical needs, not us teachers.

Schools list of disruptive behaviour is exhaustive incorrect school uniform disruptive incorrect hair disruptive incorrect shoes yadda yadda children learn fast if they want to go home wear the wrong shoes dye their hair roll their skirt up home they go in my day parents got the call to fix it at hime in their time children were not sent home for trivial matters they tried defiance and were met with education punishment was actually punishment not watch an iPad in the back of someone else's classroom or go help out in the nursery (both were punishment for poor behaviour in my sons last primary)

School is pathetic for consequences unless your unwell then you lose out on class trips rewards etc etc my sons bully was allowed on a trip he wasnt allowed on (he had chicken pox so he had an absence) the bully was allowed to go because he 'tried really hard" not to hit anyone that week...he spat on someone threw something at them but didn't physically punch them or call them gay (that week) so he went no shocks that he was excluded from secondary before Christmas of year 7 he had literally NEVER had a consequence

Because it’s all “plaster”, short term, tick box solutions. The things that actually make an impact take time and cost money so they have been shut down or are severely underfunded and understaffed. Unless we go back to workhouses, asylums and institutions so it’s an out of sight out of mind kind of problem. Not among civilised people.

When I started teaching in 2000 it was very different to today. My largest class as GCSE was 27 for a start - a top set and my weakest sets were 14. My lowest ability set is now 29. Please don’t try and tell a teacher that they know nothing about the system. This is just one small example.

Would you not come and pick him up if he was launching chairs or injuring other children and teachers? Regardless of ND or not, if your child was violently attacking others in the school and it became a serious safeguarding issue, would parents seriously expect schools to keep them there and say he’s not my responsibility between 9-3? Surely not. I think there’s a huge difference between low level disruption that can be caused by ND or not, and violent and aggressive behaviour that can harm others in the school (I am talking mainstream here where they do not have the ratios to deal with this).

This will sound cold but there are some of us in certain professions who can not be contacted during certain hours. DH and I are phones off during work time - likewise we have friends in NHS who can not be contacted. Our son’s needs aren’t deemed severe enough for a special school place (there is a specula school in our city but it has 20 children per year and hundreds in waiting list). We have to make do.

This will sound cold but there are some of us in certain professions who can not be contacted during certain hours. DH and I are phones off during work time - likewise we have friends in NHS who can not be contacted. Our son’s needs aren’t deemed severe enough for a special school place (there is a specula school in our city but it has 20 children per year and hundreds in waiting list). We have to make do.