Kemi B - the best form of welfare is a well paying job...

[Oofftheflooff]

She is absolutely right isn't she? Discussing the triple lock pension challenge and instead focusing on getting people into work. Do you agree with her ? Working 3 or 6 or 9 hours to then top up with benefits isn't the way forward (not including disabilities in here )

Well then she can’t call people for not have high paying jobs. She can’t have it both ways.

I seriously hope that some who does not want to work with kids would be filtered out at interview.

How? You sound like you have pie in the sky ideas about work. When was the last time you had an interview? They can’t see into peoples minds. Only a minority of people would carry on working if they won the lottery; which should tell you something.

If someone does not want to work with kids, then why would they be applying for jobs involving kids?
If someone is unsuitable to be working with kids, then they should not get the job.

Because, leaving aside the ethical matter of not wanting children to be hungry and homeless, its not good for society to have its citizens growing up in poverty. There is nothing that can be done to prevent people having children, and if some of those people have children they cant afford, there is no other option than for the state to step in, is there? Just as there is no other option if parents neglect or abuse their children the state steps in.

How do you know?

what do you think should happen to the children in question?

Totally, I don’t deny that, but at the end of the day, it’s a job where you don’t have to take it home with you when you clock off, and a small mistake could have serious consequences for large projects ect. You also don’t need in-depth experience or certain qualifications.

Agreed!

That's probably true for most retail work, but for care work it is absolutely not true. If you make a mistake, people can die.

As for the work offered by care homes being 'flexible' - for whom? It isn't likely to be the employee.

go to school or nursery, wrap around care. The same as children whose parents work long hours to provide for them and pay taxes to support those who prefer not to.

I keep on linking this thread which is very indicative.
To drop my hours to 22.5 even though I’m a single parent? | Mumsnet

The system should not create such situations

People's needs don't negate a free market.

Firms can attract talent by voluntarily offering stuff in the employment contract. People in America do earn a lot and have successful thriving careers. They laugh at how much we make.

And we laugh at what they put up with as regards medical bankruptcy and their cost of living.

A small mistake in a retail could cost you your job though. Most people who work on 'large projects' for high pay tend to have enough credits with their employer that a small mistake wouldn't result in their dismissal.

It’s not all rosey in the USA.

Healthcare is largely privatized and tied to employment. Even with good employer-sponsored insurance, you will likely pay monthly premiums, deductibles, and co-pays.Medical emergencies or chronic conditions can lead to massive unexpected bills, which is a leading cause of personal bankruptcy in the US.

Unlike the UK's statutory 5.6 weeks of paid annual leave, the US has no federal requirement for paid vacation. Many workers start with just 10 to 15 days per year.

There is no national statutory maternity or paternity pay, leaving it up to individual employer policies or state laws.

In most US states, employers can terminate your employment at any time without a notice period or redundancy pay, offering much less job security than the UK.

Advertised prices do not include sales tax, which is added at the register. Additionally, tipping 15% to 20% is culturally mandatory for services (restaurants, bars, taxis), adding a hidden tax to daily life.

If you have children, university tuition is exceptionally high, often requiring families to save aggressively or take on massive student debt.

Pre-school and childcare are heavily privatized and generally much more expensive than UK equivalents.

If you lose your job or fall on hard times, government assistance, unemployment benefits, and social housing are much less robust and harder to access than in the UK.

You’re totally correct, I wouldn’t be a carer for all the tea in China! They do such a great job, and the wages are absolutely criminal. I didn’t mean to suggest that all minimum wage jobs are stress free, definitely not, but it’s easier to find one if you’re willing to accept minimum wage.

I actually work a lot in care homes (not a carer) and a lot of the staff work through an agency, which is a lot more flexible than permanent jobs in the same roles.

it was often supermarket staff that were treated the worst, Asda should have a special place in hell for how they treat their staff, get their wages wrong and rip them off - I had one lady who went from full time to part time and they took away all her accused annual leave, I explained to her what they had done and she had no idea - that was the tip of the iceberg.

the reason they don't strike is due to them being mostly female staff ( its known females are much more reluctant to strike than males) and they are frightened of losing their benefits and wages

That was the whole point of my first post though, a lot of jobs that used to be considered a well paid job, working on large projects, now definitely are not! I definitely wouldn’t be getting paid much more than NMW if I went back into my old role.

im simply explaining how a lot of “middle” jobs that used to be paid a lots more than NMW have now been squeezed down to not much more than that……… they used to pay enough to have a decent life as a single person and now definitely do not.

I'm sure some do. Meanwhile the ones on low pay can't afford healthcare, aren't guaranteed safe drinking water and have an education with worse outcomes than most of Europe. Be honest - the US isn't economic utopia except for the fortunate few.

The free market by its very nature only works for the few who reach the top, and many of those are where they are because of inherited entrenched wealth.

A lot of it the sheer cost of housing and energy.

Which is why scrap net zero (though I agree laudable goal but if renewables are cheaper then surely they can work on the free market) and reform the TCPA

People's needs totally skew the (mythical) free market for labour. Employers know that people need to feed themselves and their families and the ultimate dream for the employers is that people are forced to take any job, at any rate of pay rate, just to put food on the table. The Conservatives support this approach - the Britannia Unchained mob spelled it out in what became the de facto Conservative manifesto. Cut benefits, force people to work for any wage available, remove all employee protections and rights and let the race to the bottom define the market rate. Not very much different from a sweatshop mentality.

The Americans that I know, even those in fairly senior positions, are completely under the control of their employers. Because employers can fire them at will they cannot demand better wages, they put up with having 10 days holiday a year, and their healthcare is linked to their employment meaning that it is very difficult to challenge their terms of employment. They effectively live in constant fear of losing their jobs. Some might earn quite well, but the majority do not, and they live to work rather than working to live. Firms that offer benefits in order to attract talent are few and far between, and for the vast number of unskilled and semi-skilled workers who make up the majority of the population, that argument is irrelevent.

I wouldn’t know to be honest and my post wasn’t necessarily a criticism. It was to provide an example of two different approaches to life. I’ve no idea if the person with the motobility vehicle is acting fraudulently, I suspect not plus it’s none of my business but some people want to work if they’re able to.

I think you are very ill informed if you think two people with the same diagnosis cannot experience different symptoms and be in different places on the scale of severity. A little reading should cure it though.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.