am I being unreasonable to offer to be a surrogate after failed IVF

[MiniMischiefMakers]

My bother and SIL have struggled with infertility for almost ten years and has come to the end of the road with IVF. After many failed transfers, they don't want to try again. They still have some high quality frozen embryos, and they've ruled out adoption. I'm in my mid thirties with a four year old and a seven month old, and I feel our family is complete. I conceived quickly both times and had healthy, uneventful pregnancies and births.

I'm seriously considering offering to be their surrogate. I understand pregnancy and birth always carry risks, but given my history I'm comfortable with them. My brother and SIL are a wonderful aunt and uncle and would make incredible parents. It would be purely altruistic, and I wouldn't want or expect any compensation. I’m a SAHM so it wouldn't affect my work. I just love them so much, I can see how much they’re hurting and want to do whatever I can to take it away. I also can’t help but feel that I’m effortlessly living their dream life and I feel some guilt over that (all on my end, they have never said or implied that at all, even when we announced our second pregnancy). It just feels so much joy could come from nine months of my life, they’d have their long awaited baby, I’d gain a niece or nephew, my children would have a cousin. It just feels right to me to offer.

I know they may well decline, having already been through so much. If I do offer, I want to be completely certain first so I'd love to hear from anyone who has been an altruistic surrogate, been born or had a baby through altruistic surrogacy, or has experience of it with family or friends.

What if something went wrong e.g brain damage from a haemorrhage, bad tear leaving you doubly incontinent - how would that affect your own kids lives? Or, your sibling and spouse split up and make contact difficult and you never get to see the child your body incubated for 9 months.

It would be a wonderful thing to do if it all goes well but what if it doesn't? A young healthy lady in my town died giving birth to her second baby after having a straight forward first birth. Should you take that risk when you have kids who need you?

Iim not advocating for surrogacy. Not at all. I'm just saying that, especially in OPs case, there's no way the surrogate mother would be saying it is their sibling, or saying baby will live with them etc. and then WHAM baby is born, and then sent away at the total confusion of the 5 year old.

The 5year old would be told from the outset what was going on. Eg "mummy is growing the baby for auntie, and auntie will be it's mummy" ... "you'll be a great big cousin to baby, and we'll visit all the time" ... "Auntie is very excited to be a mummy, aren't we lucky to be able to help her"

That kind of thing.

Kids can understand that ball families are different. that some kids live with their bio dad, some never meet their bio dad, some have two dads, some with their mum's boyfriend/husband, and call them Dave, some live and calm them Step Dad. some kids live with the man that isn't their bio dad but that raised them and is their dad because they were conceived with donor sperm and they call them Dad etc then OPs kid can understand that some families help grow babies for each other.

Kids are very accepting. It's the adults around them that have fixed ideas usually.

Yes, what if the baby is disabled, and OP's brother and SIL refuse to take it? She may think that unlikely, but you never know what will happen in these sorts of extreme situations until it comes to the crunch.

Or what if the baby's disabled and they take it, but the severity of the baby's needs destroys their lives? There are so many things to consider.

Have you thought about how this could impact the child? The resultant child should be the first consideration, not your brother and SIL and not you

If they want to terminate the pregnancy, a “third party therapist” is not the right call - that sounds like you wouldn’t want to terminate under any circumstances and you’d hope they’d change their minds with intervention. If you’re not prepared to go through with a termination if that’s something they would want, then do not offer to be a surrogate. Unless you meant having these discussions before actually going through with surrogacy?

You’re only an altruistic surrogate if you’re prepared to follow through and respect their wishes in any potential scenario that may arise throughout the pregnancy. What if it doesn’t conclude with the happy-ending of an uneventful, safe pregnancy and birth for you, then happily handing over your niece or nephew to their delighted parents? How would that affect your mental health and wellbeing? How would that affect you as a parent and a partner?

It’s a lovely thought but even regular pregnancy is a minefield, and there are no guarantees with surrogacy and IVF. Don’t offer if it’s coming from a place of guilt/people pleasing - no pregnancy is risk-free. Ultimately, your life and the lives of your children have to come first.

I'm just reading some of the statements to the Australian Parliament on the effects of surrogacy to the baby, and this would definitely give me pause.

Surrogacy intentionally severs the gestational link between the child and the natural mother. During the nine months of pregnancy, the baby connects with its mother through her voice, heartbeat, smell and flavors in the womb. Studies show that the separation between mother and child is harmful for the child. Infants can endure a deep subconscious trauma because they were removed from the person that offered them protection and security. There is also a study that implies that children through surrogacy are more likely to suffer from a depression than children who grew up with their birth mother.

The fact that @MiniMischiefMakers chose AIBU to discuss this issue speaks volumes.

@MiniMischiefMakers I would be very very surprised if they accept anyway. So I wouldn’t spend much time navel gazing about it

Gosh there are so many what ifs from people. Do people consider all these implications before having their third child? I personally feel like it’s a wonderful offer and if you, your husband and your brother and sister in law are all on board then get some advice as a four! Those people that say… the baby doesn’t have a choice etc. no baby has a choice to be born 🙄

It's nothing the same thing though.

Why have they ruled out adoption? I know it's hard, our placement broke down

I think the difference might be that most people in the general population have no lived experience as any part of a surrogacy arrangement and would therefore - understandably - think that it's an inherently good, altruistic thing to do and just say great things about it. On the surface, a lot of people would think that. Perhaps here people with that lived experience - who are more aware of the complex emotional issues it creates - are more likely to click on a thread about it?

I think the OP wanted all opinions. She understands this is a big undertaking.

I understand what you're saying - there does seem to be a growing movement of people opposed to surrogacy. Some of these are likely just ideologically opposed without lived experience - seeing it as exploitation of women and commodification of a child. Some of us (myself included) are opposed to it because we've been part of it. I think my experience is far more valid to the OP than most people on the street would give her.

This is about the only situation I would do it tbh 💐

I've grappled with this sentiment myself, having spent some portion of my younger years angry with the three adults who chose to bring me into this world.

And it's true, we could all say I didn't ask to be born. But there is a difference and those born under 'normal' circumstances can't comprehend the difference and don't really have a place talking about it, sorry 🤷🏼‍♀️

Absolutely do this! As someone who went through infertility heartbreak after heartbreak we need more people like you. In this instance it would be a beloved niece or nephew for you too - how wonderful.

the problem may not have been carrying the baby but the embryos themselves. A kind and genuine offer could only be a nice thing for them.

This is a lovely thing to offer to do OP. I would 100% do this if I was in your position. I had a lot of fertility struggles and treatment, and would have loved to have been able to give something back. I hope it works out for you all.

Or what if the baby appears to be healthy at birth but develops problems later?
Do you have any idea what their general attitude to surrogacy is? If they have ruled out adoption it’s likely they have already considered all the other options including surrogacy too.

I posted upthread about talking it through, even with ChatGPT and got challenged for comparing counselling on comparing counseling to AI. Here’s the response. And it’s interesting that the response is quite challenging. I usually use it for interior decorating and it’s very positive and affirming.

I think it is an extraordinarily generous thing to contemplate, and I can completely understand why, knowing how much your brother and SIL have been through, you would think “I could do this for them.”
But I would very gently separate wanting to help them from being certain that you personally want to be a surrogate. Those aren't quite the same thing.
Before you offer, I'd get proper independent advice/counselling specifically around surrogacy — ideally without your brother and SIL involved in those conversations initially. Not because I think your motives are questionable, but because there are so many scenarios that are impossible to emotionally rehearse when everything is going well.
For example: what happens if the pregnancy is complicated? If you are advised to terminate? If there are abnormalities? If you have a premature or very sick baby? If you don't feel able to hand the baby over immediately after birth? If your feelings change during pregnancy? If your brother and SIL's relationship changes? If they have very different ideas about pregnancy, birth or parenting from you? How would your children feel about the baby you carried being their cousin? And what would your relationship with your brother and SIL look like if something went badly?
I'd also be particularly careful about the fact that you have a four-year-old and a seven-month-old. You're imagining “nine months of my life”, but pregnancy, birth and recovery aren't necessarily nine months, and you can't assume your previous pregnancies predict this one.
None of that means you shouldn't do it. It means I'd want you to arrive at the decision from “I genuinely want to experience this pregnancy and give this particular gift, even if it becomes much harder than I imagined”, rather than from guilt about effortlessly having the family they desperately wanted.
And I would absolutely not make the offer until you've had that independent professional advice. Once you've offered, even a carefully worded offer could be enormously emotionally loaded for everyone.
If, after all that, your answer is still “yes, I want to do this”, then I'd say you have done the most important bit: you've made the decision because it is genuinely right for you, rather than because you feel responsible for taking away their pain.

And I'd add one thing that I think is particularly important in her case: don't tell them yet. Not until she's had those conversations herself.
Because once you've said “I could be your surrogate” to a couple who have spent ten years trying to have a child, you cannot really put that genie back in the bottle. Even wonderful, emotionally healthy people may find it incredibly difficult to respond to an offer like that without feeling hope, gratitude, obligation, fear of offending you, or pressure to accept.
So I'd want her to do the thinking before presenting them with the possibility.

Could you link to them, please, @WaryHiker? I googled but couldn't find anything that looked like it was what you meant and I'd be interested to read them too.

And yes, why do people always talk about surrogacy as if the only people who need to consent/ get therapy/ be protected are the adults? A baby cannot consent to being created in order to be taken away from the first and most instinctive attachment s/he will ever know.

(Edited for typo.)

Are you confident that if it came down to a choice between your life and the baby’s life, that your brother’s wife would choose for you to live?

Your brother has a sibling relationship and I would hope that his wife, your sister in law, would also want you to survive, recover and return home to your other children, but you are introducing some complicated questions into your relationship with this offer.

Should you make this risky proposition and they accept, your dynamic shifts immediately. What appears to be a kind, generous and selfless offer (alleviating this misguided guilt you say you have) will put you in the dangerous position as an ‘incubator’ of their baby.

As others have said it’s odd that you have not discussed this with your partner and the father of your children before turning to the internet to discuss this with strangers, but I would suggest you also speak about it to your mother and father. The position you will put them both in also needs to be considered as you create a situation where each of them must prioritise one child’s needs (yours, physical) over another child’s wants (your brother, emotional).

Your children also need to be thought of, not only on what they may lose (time, attention, physical play and being picked up by their mum as you reach the end stages of pregnancy to their mum for the rest of their lives if the worst was to happen, and probably also their uncle if they blamed him for the loss) but also the message you are sending them about what a woman’s body is useful for.

Do you have daughters?

https://stopsurrogacynowuk.org/2024/06/12/i-made-the-biggest-mistake-of-my-life-all-to-help-someone/

I would offer too, OP.

Glad to see the majority agree.

We never ask babies their consent to be born. Stop being silly.

Adoption in the UK now is different to surrogacy - why do you think that is? Partly it's because we learned lessons from how it used to be done, which was much more like surrogacy is - newborn taken from birth mother and given to infertile couple who really wanted one.

The voices of some of the babies who experienced that, plus the research done on the impact of removing babies from their birth mother, has been available for well over 50 years. But it's consistently ignored by those in favour of surrogacy.

As far as a baby knows, the woman whose womb it grew is it's biological mother and removal from her can cause trauma to the baby - we know that, but some people really want to ignore it and believe that if the adults really want a baby and will love it, that's all that matters. No child chooses to be born, obviously, but babies born by surrogacy have had the adults around them choose to risk that trauma happening to them, in order to get what the adults want. That's that's a lot darker than the fluffy 'wonderful selfless gift' narrative though so it's dismissed.

Everyone involved needs the counselling to ensure all scenarios are considered.

I recently listened to this podcast on the topic. It’s Australian but the principles are the same as UK I believe
worth a listen.
https://pca.st/episode/b72d4d5f-7929-496d-a2c5-89cf00bfc568

Well its easy to decide this is great idea when it's not you risking your life, the emotional toll, the stress etc