To be glad triple lock going and hope they means test it too

[Randomamsi]

I have a multi millionaire senior relative who receives £1,400 from the state pension each month, in addition to 6k private pension.

He's not means tested and he's received that for 30 years. Yes, he paid into the system but he does not need it!!! He also had free uni, dirt cheap first house back in the 60s and retired aged 59.

Meanwhile the younger generation:

• thousands in student loan debt
• asset poor as can't get on the housing ladder
• means tested for child benefit, tax free childcare etc
• working until late 60s/ 70s

Why do pensioners have it easy while younger ones pay the price?

For vulnerable pensioners at risk of poverty, there should obviously be provision to help them, I'm not suggesting we let people starve. But multimillionaire pensioners or very asset rich pensioners do NOT need the state pension. It's about time things changed.

Absolutely ridiculous. If Reform get in or even Tories again Labour have only themselves to blame. Let's means test Pip.

The trouble with means testing things like this is that it tends to kick in at a relatively low level, so that it includes those who may be moderately comfortable but for whom the loss of 1K per month could tip them into delaying retirement or even returning to the workplace, for example. You only have to look at the student finance system to see how average income households are expected to contribute to their adult offspring's costs - and this was alway the case, even when the grant system was in place. So I can see this happening if the pension system is overhauled - it won't just be the millionaires losing out on cash they can well afford to do without, but ordinary people missing out on money that they need.

What the fuck does that last sentence mean? I worked for 50 years damn right i earnt my pension. I am one of the 80% of pensioners who are not millionaires. Some of us have done our best and contributed to society but were not able to save or pay plenty into a private pension. I have a very small private pension, less than £50 a month. I'm assuming you don't know all pensioners. There is no way your relative is getting all that in a state pension you can't make extra contributions into it just top it up to the maximum plus he'd have to be 95 to have been claiming 30 years.

If he was well-paid, and not contracted out, and fairly old, he would have paid Graduated Pension contributions, and possibly other schemes. A sort of extra NI with a promise of a bigger pension one day. I don't know the calculation. Older people like me mostly don't get the so-called basic or flat rate, there are so many additions and deductions. I am on the "new" pension and don't get the flat rate, but it doesn't matter because I paid into a personal pension.

YABU because the pension is not a benefit - it is something that has been paid into by the retirees over decades. If it was a private pension or invested elsewhere for retirement you would expect the fund to keep up with inflation at the very least. Keeping the triple lock protects the nation's pension pot for EVERYONE who gets a state pension... but by allowing it to be raided now, means a few years down the line everyone who receives it will be getting a pittance so that this current government can look good. Means testing is problematic mainly for people who need the pension the most and for borderline cases... not for the people who can afford to do without the state pension. Keeping it protects YOUR retirement too. Even if that seems a long way off.
As for your rich relative- Anything over the £12k tax limit they will pay tax on. I'm sorry that you are struggling... but raiding the nation's pension pot is NOT the answer.

Complaining about finances on a £60k salary is absolutely wild.

Hahahaha no. If he started claiming many years ago he’d be about 80 odd.

You are not being unreasonable but people will say you are becuase apparently pensioners deserve better than everyone else 🙄

Why do pensioners have it easy while younger ones pay the price?
Might be a bit more complicated.

£900 a month here. hope you can live on that

What a ridiculous thing to say my generation coming up to retirement has been screwed over more than any other generation.

State pension is not a benefit - people have paid into it while they were working through NI.
Pension credit is a benefit given to those who have not paid enough in.
It would not be remotely fair to shift the goalposts and not allow those who have paid in for a state pension to access it.

Couldn’t agree more - yes lifestyles were more basic - but that wasacross the board to a large extent , my FILs friend ( he’s now late 80s) had a 3 bed roomy terraced house in Hammersmith on an average single wage. Students got no fees, grants ( not loans) and could claim housing allowance in holidays, overtime was routinely paid at time and a half , London weighting very common, pensions were usually non contributory in many professions, nice experience/fill in opportunities to go and do 2 months in a bar in Amsterdam or a hotel in Spain totally killed off by Brexit unless you’ve got EU citizenship - the list is endless and for many it’s somewhat disguised by having comfortably off parents enabling them to live at home, do internships , delay stuff and go and do MA etc

yes many things have improved from a social angle, more nurseries available, proper maternity leave ( not £108 week for 13weeks only as I had) slightly more paid holiday , not usually living Asa couple with parents or in a damp grim 1 room flat - but to actually get lift off and some stability and traction especially in non cheap areas where your family and friends might be is now incredibly difficult.

im not seeing where the ‘easier is’ - I owned a house at 20 just working in a high st bank .

I worked in the public sector and was subject to pretty crappy pay deals, pay freezes and pay caps too in the past.

Give over. I agree with op. You had access to affordable housing, free education and a functioning nhs most of your lives - more than the young people get

Means testing the pension would be counterproductive, many people would see it as a reason not to bother saving for their old age.

Triple lock should go. State pension should be based on how much is needed to live on, not based on wages.

There are other ways to rebalance wealth between the generations which I would be in favour of, in particular putting a tax on property gains, which have hugely benefitted the older generations at the expense of the younger.

Let's means test scrougers who force animals to breed and sell the offspring.
Let's means test people who pretend to be running a CiC and sit around filling in grant applications.

Was establishing wealth easier for your Uncle’s generation, probably. Were they also willing to make more sacrifices to do so, probably. I say that as someone born in the 1980s.
If your Uncle has £6k/month in a private pension it is quite probable that he had a highly paid job or owned a successful business. If either of those are true he will have made a significant contribution to the public purse through taxes on many fronts (and possibly supported the employment of others who in turn paid taxes) during his career. He has, quite frankly, probably paid his dues to the society of which he is part?

As people have said, the state pension is not a benefit. He has put money in and is now taking money out.
There needs to be an incentive to work hard and do more. If he did that (as many people do), why should he (or they) be judged or punished?
Is there some luck, yes, but if people have more in their bank or their pension because they have done 60-80hour weeks, carried the stress of running a business and employing people, been more frugal etc (not just been born at the right time) then taking it away from them would become a societal disincentive to hard work, that would be a net negative for people who need support in the form of benefits as that comes from the tax of those who pay in……. and a very small % of society shoulder a huge amount of the tax burden.
Of course, there is nothing to stop your Uncle from donating his state pension, winter fuel allowance etc to charity if he feels a moral obligation to do so or choosing to support others with his wealth.
His wealth might also be subject to a massive inheritance tax bill at some point - the third time the £1 he has earned will be taxed (income, investment, inheritance).…… the crazily high tax burden in this country is exactly why many wealthy people are leaving. We need to encourage and support wealth generation to make the lives of everyone better. Alongside it we could educate for old fashioned values and morals so that those in a position to do so support those who are less well off by choice…

Similar. I paid all my qualifying NI years and currently receive £921 per month, certainly not £1400 - how helpful that would be !!

State pension can be viewed as “means tested” at the point of contribution. Someone who has paid 100s of thousands of £ in NI receives the same pension as someone who contributed the bare minimum. That’s fair enough.

Pensions are not an ordinary benefit. But if you've paid NI your entire working life then you should be able to claim back some of the money you've paid in.

Removing incentive is terrible for productivity.

I pay thousands upon thousands every year in income tax alone and I don't receive any benefits. No child benefit, no tax-free childcare, no nothing. So don't say because I've done well that I shouldn't receive a pension that I've paid for.

I disagree with the triple lock as a concept, so I'm glad that's gone, but a pension should not be means tested.

Yet another one! State pension IS a benefit! Cope!

The point that you are missing is that while your relative might be very wealthy, he pays tax on that pension as part of his overall income. Who decides where the cuf off line is for contributions based benefits?

. If you have an asset like a house worth £million are you suggesting that wealthy pensioners should not be paid state pension. because they could realise their assets by selling it, moving into rented and living off the proceedsl?

Not sure the system can ever be fair for everyone , not can changes to entitlement unless you are on the side of the line that would benefit more?

@Randomamsi You do know all income, including pensions, is taxable at just the same rate as if it were a salary, don't you?

The 6k is money that he’s paid into throughout his working life. It’s his money and doesn’t impact his entitlement to the state pension. That won’t change. As a high earner he will have paid substantial amounts of income tax during his working life, that paid for the welfare state and the benefits of others. Now he’s entitled to his state pension because he paid into the system. Seems fair to me.