Where do you think Jewish people come from?

[BlessedIsTheFruit]

Antisemitism is at full volume at the moment and I caveat this post with saying that I have absolutely no wish to make Jewish MNers feel uncomfortable but as an an atheist with no connection to Israel this really makes my blood boil.

I see so many SM posts about the Jews having 'colonized' Israel and Judea & Samaria, not having any claim to the land, not being indigenous and of course being 'Europeans settlers'.

They can't answer where they actually come from though so I thought anyone on here who shares their views might be able to give an answer and how they came to that conclusion.

I understand that Jews are an ethnicity with Judaism as their religion. Being Jewish is not a religion. Jews are still today spread out all over the world with the majority living in Israel and the US.

This has come into focus since the UK Government sanctions on Jewish businesses in Judea & Samaria recently with Jewish communities living there classed as 'illegal settlers'.

It's almost as if Jews and Judea have no connection at all.

So AIBU to ask where the Jews originated from if not from there?

I don't feel this belongs on the CITME board as although the war in Gaza has amplified beliefs, this not directly about that.

Nationality is a legal term. You can't just feel yourself to be a particular nationality. Which is why no matter how African someone feels unless they have a legal right to live in a particular country in Africa (e.g. by virtue of their nationality) they don't have an automatic right to live there.

Agree with all.

What's limited citizenship, though? Aren't you either a citizen of somewhere or you're not?

My ancestry is almost entirely Ashkenazi jewish as well. All my great grandparents were hunted out of the Jewish ghettos in Russia in the 1880s. Some siblings ended up in Europe and were murdered a generation later, my direct ancestors ended up in the states. Ethically and culturally I’m Jewish but I married out so my kids are 50% ethically Jewish and 75% culturally. My SIL converted so is 0% and 100%. It’s not a simple answer.

i was born in Israel, grew up in the states and immigrated to the UK 20 years ago. Not a simple answer for me either.

I actually don’t care about 2000 years ago. Or 500. Or 1948 particularly. I care about having somewhere to go the next time there’s a round of pogroms though. Am less concerned than many about where this exists physically but the need for a Jewish homeland remains as important as it ever was. We just aren’t safe without it.

They come from Judea, it is their homeland. I find it ironic that the same people who screech about freeing Palestine also make a big deal about US Americans being colonisers and living on stolen land. The lack of critical thinking is woeful.

So Palestinians are indigenous to Ethopia?

You should tell them.

Why just Austria and Germany? The UK is full of Anglo-Saxons, surely they should pay up too!

The problem is that we do in fact seem to, (and many people advocate it), depending on who the minority is. For example, some Palestinians have lived in Jordan and other Arab countries for centuries but want to return home. In Australia, Indigenous Australians demand ownership over land that has been used by others for over a century.

The stork like everyone else. Duh

I used to date an Israeli guy. His family had been driven out of Iraq some generations before. There's lots of Yemeni Jews, Lebanese Jews, etc etc. They were driven from where they lived and arrived in Israel with very little.

I know if you're European it can seem like Jews are just from Europe, and of course, until so very many were killed in the holocaust, many many were. But lots of Jews are middle Eastern.

To be accurate I allowed my British passport to lapse. I don’t that means I can never go there again. Will find out tomorrow at Gatwick.

thankfully an imaginary friend is not needed at the immigration desk.

Perhaps you have figured out the difference between British and white British. White being the key word.

Funny how many sanctioned Russians suddenly reconnected with their Jewish roots.

No. Some countries allow you to apply for what is essentially a limited citizenship (usually because you have got ancestral roots there) that gives you certain but not full rights in that country.

I wasn't saying such a person would be African or able to claim African citizenship or be able to live in Africa. Basically what I said was that he would be British with African heritage. And that the extent of how much he would identify with his African heritage would be partially influenced by how recently his forbears came to the UK. People of African heritage who are born and raised in the UK and have only a UK passport can be very connected to their African heritage and consider themselves African as well as British, even if it's not codified in a legal document such as a passport.

Well I’m Ashkenazi Jewish and I’m 3d generation British, with my ancestors having left Russia in the late 1800s due to the pogroms. I count myself as a British Jew. I don’t identify with being Russian.

Obviously my antecedents ended up in Eastern Europe from the Levant/Middle East. Mizrahi Jews stayed in the ME but were expelled from Iraq, Syria etc. too. Basically the only ‘real’ safe place for us is Israel, but I have no desire to live there.

Jews always lived in Judea/Israel.

What do you think should have happened to them if the Arabs won the 1948 war? Or a better question would be, what do you think WOULD have happened to them?

The Palestinians had no sovereign State there either and the region was conquered territory by a foreign administration which is exactly why the land was reallocated.

What do you think should have been allocated to the Jews?

Yes, they are most definitely responsible. Just like the African slave traders bear some responsibility for the slave trade. Oh, hang on a minute…

EXACTLY! Someone mentioned crying wolf and this is exactly it!

The Palestinians are African too?

Why does someone have claim to a piece of land because their ancestors lived there? Can I claim Sweden despite my family being in the US for over 100 years?

I am not arguing against Israel as a nation or the right of any person to be safe. I just don’t believe that we should be
tracing land histories back hundreds of years when making decisions that have impact on real people today.

Today Israel exists therefore Israel should continue to exist. That is all that really matters at this point.

It's relevant because everyone is from somewhere else if you look back far enough. But we don't tend to look back thousands of years to decide who had a right to live where.

We're all African. Humanity is Out of Africa.

We are all indigenous to Ethiopia I think, everyone of us, in the sense that it seems that's where humans engaged. So you are too.