AIBU to think challenging school rules can harm children’s resilience?

[Teenytinypineapple]

AIBU to think that many of those parents who push back against schools and their rules are completely oblivious to the damage they're doing to their children?

The children who do the best are those whose parents instill in them that they should conform. Yes, that will cause difficulties at times. Yes, there will be things they don't like. But that's life. That's how children develop resilience.

Whilst little Timmy and his Mommy are complaining about the school sending him home for wearing the wrong shoes, little Jimmy has learned to suck it up, wear the damn shoes, get his head down and realise it's up to him to make the most of his education.

I’m afraid I totally disagree. Little Jimmy needs to work towards a good education, regardless of his shoes, and he needs to know his parents have his back if the school is frankly batshit. Conforming to pointless rules purely because someone says so, does nothing for resilience. I would rather encourage the application of common sense in conjunction with a real understanding of the importance of education, a good work ethic, etc. Incidentally I do agree that there are times when people need to accept that conforming is part of the deal, but children need to be encouraged to see the differences between utterly stupid rules that don’t contribute to education, versus the real world.. just my opinion..

Depends on the rules, their implications and the context. I've no more intention of teaching my children to blindly follow rules at all times than I do of teaching them they are a special snowflake and the rules don't apply to them.

Teaching them to follow the rules most of the time but also to stand up for themselves when they think a rule is unreasonable or unfair makes them far more resilient than just doing as they are told at all times.

Should Timmy/Jimmy wear the shoes and suck it up? If the shoes are fit for purpose, absolutely. Should their sister Sally put up with rules about toilet usage that mean she or other girls risk bleeding through their protection when they are on their period during lessons? (Just a completely random example but it's been an issue at our local secondary school lately). Absolutely not.

Follow school rules. It's not that hard

I disagree. If parents hadn't stood up to the uniform with school logo nonsense, (ours brought in with no notice and no leeway for hand-me-downs) we'd still be paying over the odds for trousers and skirts. As it was the kids being sent home repeatedly, parents going in to complain and the MPs getting involved changed the rule and showed the kids that rules can be overturned if enough people think they are stupid and stand up to be counted.

Some school rules should not be followed such as letting boys use the girls toilets/changing facilities or enforced observance of gender ideology including compelled speach, others such as no running in the corridors etc absolutely should be followed.
I have the schools back on the sensible rules but they can go whistle if they think im going to back them up when they want to punish my child for calling a male teacher Mr instead of Mrs

It depends.

My child has been in trouble for hitting back a child (and there’s witnesses that they weren’t violent first) I rightly told school that my child shouldn’t be in trouble and that they are owed an apology for any loss of playtime (a popular punishment at their school) School have agreed both times.

If my child had sensory problems with uniform (especially at primary) then I’d make sure that my child wasn’t asked about any necessary adjustments they needed.

I don’t understand how sucking it up is related to the best education. Can Timmy explain why the shoe rule might need exemptions (eg he has feet issues that school shoe shops can’t accommodate) ? Can he find in the rules the process of getting an exemption? Finding that process, writing an email to the relevant person and getting the exemption are the actions of a smart kid. Maybe the staff member will want to talk to him during the school day? Can he calmly and concisely explain himself? That’s the kind of skills that should be promoted and applauded.

There are some worrying rules in schools atm. Eg toilet usage. If my child walked out of class so that they didn’t shit or leak blood in public, I would defend them all the way.

I would worry about a child who always follows a rule. They are susceptible to being conned, taken advantage of or becoming a doormat which I wouldn’t want. There are rules that you have to suck up eg my dd would have loved to have attended a primary where the summer dress colour was pink or lilac.

Oh please. It's not damaging to children's resilience to have their parents challenge a school rule.

It is damaging to children's education to be sent home because their mother can't afford the blazer though.

I'm fine with challenging the rules directly with the head in private while always encouraging my children to follow the rules. But I would absolutely support my child if the broke the rules for the greater good (to help another child maybe). Rules are not automatically right just because they are rules.

I think that massively depends on the rule in question, and the age of the child. Speaking to the school about something causing an issue with a 4 year old who is 2 weeks into reception is a completely different kettle of fish to swooping in to help an 18 year old coming to the end of 6th form.

Within our son's friendship group, there are kids at grammar, a comp and an academy. The most slack on rules is the grammar, as the kids there have been brought up with boundaries (made to study) and have a level of self-regulation. Whilst there are many of these kids in the comp and the academy, there are also a lot who have no self-regulation, so they have tight rules to keep them on the straight and narrow. It's a great pity for those who can regulate themselves, but they won't learn much if the others kick off anyway. Living within the rules is a lifeskill and generally parents supporting school unless it's outrageous is important.

I usually tell my kids the rules are the rules. If there’s something I think is a problem I might speak to school but I wouldn’t involve the children. How can they feel safe at school when their own parents are undermining the staff?

Rules, yes if they're sensible.
Pettiness, NO.

There are sensible rules, and there are crazy and absurd roolz, imposed by power-hungry tyrants (and yes, I do mean head teachers, often seeking to "make their mark" on a school).

I was that child who was a total stickler for rules, who told on other children when they broke them, and I used to protest angrily when I saw the sign "no ball games" being contravened in the park, and my parents crossing the road at the red man. None of that helped me in my adult life.

The roolz of 2020; yeah, following them rigidly worked wonders for children's resilience. I think we should have been challenging and fighting very, very hard against the some of the obviously nonsensical roolz which were imposed on us in 2020 (many of which caused massive harm to children) - not meekly and mindlessly obeying them, as so many people did, and took it upon themselves to police, and grass on their neighbours. And then, of course, our glorious leader proved that he knew the roolz were complete nonsense, by his own disobedience of them. I've had much less respect for rules in general since then, and I would encourage DCs to speak up against pointless roolz.

This.

I think there is a happy medium.

Of course, children need to learn that they won't always get their way, that they can't just do whatever they like, and that sometimes we just have to suck things up in order to function in society.

But teaching blind conformity and compliance isn't desirable. Rules which are unreasonable, unjust or disproportionate should be challenged in an appropriate manner.

We should not be teaching our kids to be difficult for the sake of it, nor should we be teaching them that they are helpless in the face of injustice. The key skill that we need to give our children is the ability to assess each situation on a case by case basis so that they can make sensible judgments for themselves about when it's better to keep quiet and suck stuff up and when it's appropriate to push back and challenge.

In most cases I agree with you, but some of the uber-strict academies are so joyless and the rules are so ridiculous. My friend's daughter received a detention for not having the correct equipment in class because her red pen ran out during the lesson.
Yes, you have to learn to follow rules in life but children aren't always able to argue their case in the same way that adults can and so occasionally you do need to intervene on their behalf.

So many school rules are just absolute bull shit and in the real world, utterly irrelevant. Too many rules for young children can be utterly anxiety inducing and cause stress when totally unnecessary.

Some school rules are ridiculous though and need challenging.

I really don’t want my kids to conform to pointless or unfair rules, they need to learn when to advocate for themselves and others and to see the bigger picture. No wonder there’s so little political engagement if we raise kids to conform at any price.

I don’t agree with conforming. That’s how you enable the holocaust. You stand up for what is right and you model that to your children. I don’t want to raise sheep.
obviously if the policy is just annoying not harmful you take it on the chin but appeals and complaints exist for a reason. Schools don’t always get it right

There are ways of speaking up about rules, and generally those who follow rules and are polite the vast majority of the time will be listened to better if there's an issue where discretion needs to be applied, for example if the toilet is needed during the lesson.

Many parents forget that the rules of a school are about trying to optimise the experience for everyone, not for individual optimisation.

If toilet access was a free-for-all, the girl needing an emergency change of sanitary protection wouldn't be able to access them when needed if they were full of truants and damaged by unsupervised poor behaviour anyway. It would be harder to find the student with the risk assessment hiding and possibly self-harming in the toilets if most of those cubicles are full when checks are taking place. Rules restricting access aren't about sadism, they're about safeguarding.

Parents who wade in over minor issues can often end up not developing their children's skills at advocating for themselves. I haven't had to get involved in very much with my own teenagers because they're good at following the rules the vast majority of the time and my first response to them if they have an issue is to tell them to find the teacher and talk politely to them.

Depends what they’re conforming to. To some extent it’s part of life to put up with things you don’t particularly like but I don’t think children should be taught not to question things that are petty and unfair.
If people had always been compliant and passive a majority of us would be living under very poor conditions.
There’s a balance, just getting on with things is also sometimes appropriate.

It stands to reason that if you criticise teachers to a child and complain if the child gets consequences for bad behaviour, the child is more likely to be rude and disruptive than a child with parents who try to support the school and don't laugh off bad behaviour or say "My Timmy would never do that. He's not going to detention" etc

Surely it depends on the circumstances and the rules . Some things can be petty, but ultimately irrelevant in the grand scheme of this , so follow them or deal with the consequences if you don’t. Some rules are essential for the safety and wellbeing of pupils and a smooth running of the school day. Some can be dangerous, damaging or discriminatory and they should be challenged (through appropriate means).

Conformity is a mixed skill to have. It has its uses - as they extreme opposite is rebellion- but conformity isn’t valued much in the workplace, excepting the junior processing type roles (which will be taken with AI)

conformity shouldn’t come at the cost of curiosity about why things are.

for example there is a AMA atm from an ex prisoner and 70% of the posts are telling her off for breaking the law. Because what matters is conformity, and if you don’t conform with the law you’re a bad person.

but would you take that stance in China? Iran? Saudi? Hopefully not. That’s where the ability to challenge conformity demonstrates intellect and emotional intelligence

I’m afraid I totally disagree. Little Jimmy needs to work towards a good education, regardless of his shoes, and he needs to know his parents have his back if the school is frankly batshit
If the school is batshit, you should complain.

The problem is that schools are not batshit. The parents themselves challenge any rules they just don't like. If they don't like them, they can only be wrong and they therefore teach their kids not to respect them.

You then more and more kids who think it's up to them to pick and choose what authority to respect based on whether they like what they are told or not.

These little darlings are the same who then can't keep any jobs because they just can't adhere to any rules and expectations, but it's never their fault because they have been taught by their parents they are doing the right to challenge everything.