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AIBU to think challenging school rules can harm children’s resilience?

253 replies

Teenytinypineapple · 23/09/2026 16:20

AIBU to think that many of those parents who push back against schools and their rules are completely oblivious to the damage they're doing to their children?

The children who do the best are those whose parents instill in them that they should conform. Yes, that will cause difficulties at times. Yes, there will be things they don't like. But that's life. That's how children develop resilience.

Whilst little Timmy and his Mommy are complaining about the school sending him home for wearing the wrong shoes, little Jimmy has learned to suck it up, wear the damn shoes, get his head down and realise it's up to him to make the most of his education.

OP posts:
Teenytinypineapple · Yesterday 12:06

Passaggressfedup · Yesterday 10:14

I don't necessarily like the ultra strict ethos and I do think there's an element of breaking their spirt involved in having them apply blindly, but for many complex reasons, schools with the strictest uniform policies do seem to perform best
The problem with strict rules is that it can take away the element of responsibility. I think the best schools are those which not very strict rules but are strict in making sure they are applied.

I would agree that consistent implementation of the rules is

OP posts:
Teenytinypineapple · Yesterday 12:29

Passaggressfedup · Yesterday 10:14

I don't necessarily like the ultra strict ethos and I do think there's an element of breaking their spirt involved in having them apply blindly, but for many complex reasons, schools with the strictest uniform policies do seem to perform best
The problem with strict rules is that it can take away the element of responsibility. I think the best schools are those which not very strict rules but are strict in making sure they are applied.

I agree that consistent implementation of the rules is far more important than the rules themselves.

OP posts:
inerja · Yesterday 13:02

Backedoffhackedoff · Yesterday 11:41

Don’t you think society has any impact on young people’s outcomes?

So what, you think our choices haven’t impacted our children and made things harder for them?

Backedoffhackedoff · Yesterday 13:11

inerja · Yesterday 13:02

So what, you think our choices haven’t impacted our children and made things harder for them?

Did you mean to quote me? I don’t understand your question in the context of my reply to @Passaggressfedup

Passaggressfedup · Yesterday 13:16

Don’t you think society has any impact on young people’s outcomes?
Where did you get that I didn't? WE build society. Parents are the biggest influence on children. So let's prepare them well to build their own society as they become adults.

Backedoffhackedoff · Yesterday 13:17

Passaggressfedup · Yesterday 13:16

Don’t you think society has any impact on young people’s outcomes?
Where did you get that I didn't? WE build society. Parents are the biggest influence on children. So let's prepare them well to build their own society as they become adults.

I was responding to this comment:

“Ha yes, when running out of arguments, blame capitalism! Or the government. Predictable!”

inerja · Yesterday 13:19

Passaggressfedup · Yesterday 13:16

Don’t you think society has any impact on young people’s outcomes?
Where did you get that I didn't? WE build society. Parents are the biggest influence on children. So let's prepare them well to build their own society as they become adults.

Sorry I was quoting the pp

ImaSpringChicken · Yesterday 13:54

Teenytinypineapple · Yesterday 12:29

I agree that consistent implementation of the rules is far more important than the rules themselves.

Certainly the ability to follow rules and protocols is very important. Why do people think the army place do much emphasis on insanely specific kit criteria for trainees? You don't want to only discover a serviceman is unable to follow rules when he is maintaining a tank or an aircraft your life might depend on!

Teenytinypineapple · Yesterday 14:02

Superhansrantowindsor · Yesterday 10:21

Erm where have I said I give them a free pass? And I have raised my concerns through appropriate channels! Some rules are stupid. It’s very annoying as a class teacher having to enforce stupid rules about blazers for example. My point is that parents complain about rules that are actually pretty good rules.

Apologies, I read that "Some school rules are pointless and I say that as a teacher" to mean that is what you actually say...

As for the blazer controversy... If any of your students wish to go to the Bar, they will need to adapt pretty quickly to wearing ridiculous outfits to work. Those from public and private schools are often used to such eccentricities and it shows. Children from less privileged backgrounds, who haven't been made to follow the "stupid" rules, struggle a lot more when the world of work demands it of them.

Again, it's a prime example of people not seeing beyond the end of their nose. It might seem inconsequential, now, but there's a chance someone higher up has recognised the potential impact of certain rules on students' future prospects and have tried to legislate for that.

OP posts:
Teenytinypineapple · Yesterday 14:08

DoNotComply · Yesterday 10:58

This. My DD was the same, and lazy teachers who used whole class punishments instead of dealing with the kids who were actually causing problems ruined her school experience.

Her primary head teacher massively pushed the authoritarian "teachers are always right, never question what an adult tells you to do" line. It backfired tragically when it turned out one of the adults was leveraging that attitude to abuse kids.

OP's stance assumes that all school staff are good at their jobs, honest and fair - this is far from being the case in my experience.

Punishing the class for the errors of one or a few are us not a practice that is promoted.

Safeguarding exists. Obviously, where someone abused children, they breached those rules. But what if that person turned round and said they didn't agree with the law, hence they ignored it?

There are ways and means to challenge rules without giving your child the (inaccurate) idea that they can choose which rules apply and which rules don't.

OP posts:
Teenytinypineapple · Yesterday 14:11

Comtesse · Yesterday 11:01

A 4 year old who is going to change the world because he follows all the rules? Right you are 🤣 see what he’s like in 10 years before making these kind of wild prognostications….

He's going to be significantly more effective than those whose parents gave them a free pass through life, yeah. He's already resilient and has skills that, sadly, many children just won't have the opportunity to develop because their parents think that some of the rules just shouldn't apply to them.

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Teenytinypineapple · Yesterday 14:19

AmethystDeceiver · Yesterday 11:09

I did think the same! No one knows it all like the mother of one young child....

Enjoy the compliance while it lasts @Teenytinypineapple !!

And the member of SLT with 20+ years' experience in secondary education, including a specialism in teenage brain development and behaviour...

My child will (very likely) be fine. There are some who buck the trend. But the trends are strong.

As I've said, on repeat, the ones who suffer are the children who have been brought up to think the rules don't all apply to them, at their will. Good luck to little Timmy who always forgets his pens, moans about wearing shoes, can't keep to time etc when he has to start networking and attending job interviews, whilst other candidates are well turned-out and understand when to comply / how to actually bring about change (not just refusing to do things they don't like).

Interesting anecdote... Factory owner attended a school as part of a careers event. No nonsense sort of guy. Hall full of 200 students. He explained that he receives that number of applications per position for the most basic / entry level jobs. He looked around the room and pointed to the kids who he said would be turned around at the interview room door. Now, those students who didn't look the part may well perform better than those who did but in a competitive market, people will make the easy cuts. Those wearing proper uniform demonstrated, visually, they can follow a rule. Those not wearing proper uniform suggested that they may be unnecessarily challenging / contrary.

OP posts:
Comtesse · Yesterday 14:20

And how OP do you account for most of the schools in Europe where uniforms are not even worn at primary or secondary?

Indeed in some countries school uniform is almost unknown (eg Italian schools, not surprising given their history in the 1920s and 30s).

Does that mean they are all duffers unlikely to amount to anything? Come on, I doubt it.

It’s a mad quirk of the UK system where we seriously propose that the colour of hair bobbles at school has an important impact on life chances. That attitude won’t save our jobs from the AI revolution….

Teenytinypineapple · Yesterday 14:26

Comtesse · Yesterday 14:20

And how OP do you account for most of the schools in Europe where uniforms are not even worn at primary or secondary?

Indeed in some countries school uniform is almost unknown (eg Italian schools, not surprising given their history in the 1920s and 30s).

Does that mean they are all duffers unlikely to amount to anything? Come on, I doubt it.

It’s a mad quirk of the UK system where we seriously propose that the colour of hair bobbles at school has an important impact on life chances. That attitude won’t save our jobs from the AI revolution….

If it's not a rule to wear uniform, then it's not an issue. If there is a rule to wear uniform. Wear the uniform. Very, very simple.

The point isn't that children should wear uniform. The point is that children should follow the rules set by their school. Uniform just seems to be a contentions matter amongst some parents and their offspring. Which is very silly, really - I'd be worried about a child's ability to function if they weren't capable of wearing the correct coloured hair bobble.

OP posts:
DoNotComply · Yesterday 14:39

Teenytinypineapple · Yesterday 14:08

Punishing the class for the errors of one or a few are us not a practice that is promoted.

Safeguarding exists. Obviously, where someone abused children, they breached those rules. But what if that person turned round and said they didn't agree with the law, hence they ignored it?

There are ways and means to challenge rules without giving your child the (inaccurate) idea that they can choose which rules apply and which rules don't.

It may not be promoted but it is still very widely used.

And my point is that training children to comply without question is dangerous.

ohthesuspense · Yesterday 15:05

I chose not to send my DCs to the local academy that operates with an expectation of absolute compliance to a whole host of unnecessarily strict rules because I do not agree with that type of schooling.
My DCs know that I expect them to follow the rules at their school, but they also know that I think some of them are pointless, which has opened up discussions about authority, respect etc. The school / teachers are most certainly not always In-The-Right and I will question them if I feel it’s appropriate.
Case in point - my DC broke their arm last year and could not get their blazer over their cast. So then went in without it (Rules are blazer worn in the corridor but can be taken off in class). I received a call saying my child was in seclusion because they didn’t have their blazer and to get them out I needed to take it in. Oh and I had sent a note about the blazer btw.
I was told that they needed to carry it around in their bag so it could be shown to any reached that asks, until they could wear it again. I made it EXTREMELY clear to the head what I thought about this utterly ridiculous rule, and my DC was also fully aware that it was just completely stupid and a very good example of a rule there just for the sake of it. But, my DC dutifully carried their blazer round because the alternative would have been not being allowed to learn.
I rolled my eyes when three months later the school communicated that blazers were no longer mandatory at any time…

Teenytinypineapple · Yesterday 15:17

DoNotComply · Yesterday 14:39

It may not be promoted but it is still very widely used.

And my point is that training children to comply without question is dangerous.

If there is a genuine concern, as the child's parent, report it and keep pushing it up the chain. Obviously, any such concern would need to be backed by reason - what's the law / best practice, what has occurred, how has that breached the law / best practice, ask for a resolution. If the school has behaved in a way which goes against the law / best practice (depending on which one) then take it up with the trust / Local Authority / Ofsted.

OP posts:
Teenytinypineapple · Yesterday 15:23

ohthesuspense · Yesterday 15:05

I chose not to send my DCs to the local academy that operates with an expectation of absolute compliance to a whole host of unnecessarily strict rules because I do not agree with that type of schooling.
My DCs know that I expect them to follow the rules at their school, but they also know that I think some of them are pointless, which has opened up discussions about authority, respect etc. The school / teachers are most certainly not always In-The-Right and I will question them if I feel it’s appropriate.
Case in point - my DC broke their arm last year and could not get their blazer over their cast. So then went in without it (Rules are blazer worn in the corridor but can be taken off in class). I received a call saying my child was in seclusion because they didn’t have their blazer and to get them out I needed to take it in. Oh and I had sent a note about the blazer btw.
I was told that they needed to carry it around in their bag so it could be shown to any reached that asks, until they could wear it again. I made it EXTREMELY clear to the head what I thought about this utterly ridiculous rule, and my DC was also fully aware that it was just completely stupid and a very good example of a rule there just for the sake of it. But, my DC dutifully carried their blazer round because the alternative would have been not being allowed to learn.
I rolled my eyes when three months later the school communicated that blazers were no longer mandatory at any time…

I can entirely understand why you took your children out of their school and it sounds as though they will have learned really good lessons from how you handled that situation. I assume a hand-written note was the correct way to inform the school of such an issue?

I wonder if you and I are perhaps on a more similar page than it would appear at first glance.

Hope your DC's arm had an uncomplicated recovery.

OP posts:
Superhansrantowindsor · Yesterday 15:34

Teenytinypineapple · Yesterday 14:02

Apologies, I read that "Some school rules are pointless and I say that as a teacher" to mean that is what you actually say...

As for the blazer controversy... If any of your students wish to go to the Bar, they will need to adapt pretty quickly to wearing ridiculous outfits to work. Those from public and private schools are often used to such eccentricities and it shows. Children from less privileged backgrounds, who haven't been made to follow the "stupid" rules, struggle a lot more when the world of work demands it of them.

Again, it's a prime example of people not seeing beyond the end of their nose. It might seem inconsequential, now, but there's a chance someone higher up has recognised the potential impact of certain rules on students' future prospects and have tried to legislate for that.

I don’t mean literally fgs. I mean here- I say that here as a teacher. And I never said I gave anyone a free pass because I don’t.
Of course in some jobs you have to wear specific clothing- nobody would disagree with that. But I’m talking about children being told you must wear your blazer to walk into a room but the second you are in you can take it off but you must put it on to go back in the corridor but as soon as you are out the building you can take it off.

Superhansrantowindsor · Yesterday 15:38

FWIW I have a reputation at my school for being strict and someone who sticks to the rules all the time. It is hard when others pick and chose which rules to follow. That doesn’t stop me having a personal opinion that some rules are stupid. I am a professional and none of the pupils I teach would suspect for one minute that I think some rules are daft. Management know though as I have complained in the correct way.

Stompythedinosaur · Yesterday 15:43

Teenytinypineapple · Yesterday 07:42

Parents should teach their children how to properly challenge a rule - that never includes blind disobedience.

We don't want a generation of children who use the same ethos in the big wide world that their parents have taught them apply to school rules - that they can simply pick and choose which ones to follow, based on whether or not they think it's a decent rule / law.

We want a generation which knows how to properly change the world for the better. Disobedience does not do that.

The Milgram Study is very far removed from the reality of a school which has proper legislative authority to create rules and punish where those rules are broken, as well as being regulated institutions. There's a whole host of legislation to properly challenge a school. That is the way to do it.

I imagine "properly challenge a rule" is code for "ask politely and accept the answer". The belief that societal structures can effectively be changed through that mechanism is an issue of privilege, because powerless groups generally won't be listened to.

So, no, I don't think it's good to teach that to children.

I think it's nonsense to suggest schools are perfect, their policies are applied fairly or that teachers always make the right choice. It's a fantasy.

Blind trust and servile obedience are not traits that constructive members of society hold.

DoNotComply · Yesterday 16:06

Teenytinypineapple · Yesterday 15:17

If there is a genuine concern, as the child's parent, report it and keep pushing it up the chain. Obviously, any such concern would need to be backed by reason - what's the law / best practice, what has occurred, how has that breached the law / best practice, ask for a resolution. If the school has behaved in a way which goes against the law / best practice (depending on which one) then take it up with the trust / Local Authority / Ofsted.

It's much too late for that when the parents don't find out until after the child has actually been harmed. And the child didn't speak up because they were told that they must obey adults in the school and the abuser told them not to tell anyone.

You cannot assume that everyone in a school is either competent or well intentioned. The abuser in my child's school was vetted and DBS checked.

Teenytinypineapple · Yesterday 16:08

Superhansrantowindsor · Yesterday 15:34

I don’t mean literally fgs. I mean here- I say that here as a teacher. And I never said I gave anyone a free pass because I don’t.
Of course in some jobs you have to wear specific clothing- nobody would disagree with that. But I’m talking about children being told you must wear your blazer to walk into a room but the second you are in you can take it off but you must put it on to go back in the corridor but as soon as you are out the building you can take it off.

I don't know you from Adam. And some Adams will say that.

Is it really that difficult for children to put a blazer on and take it off at particular times? It's hardly a difficult rule to follow.

OP posts:
Teenytinypineapple · Yesterday 16:12

Superhansrantowindsor · Yesterday 15:38

FWIW I have a reputation at my school for being strict and someone who sticks to the rules all the time. It is hard when others pick and chose which rules to follow. That doesn’t stop me having a personal opinion that some rules are stupid. I am a professional and none of the pupils I teach would suspect for one minute that I think some rules are daft. Management know though as I have complained in the correct way.

And I think parents should take a similar approach with their children and attitudes to conformity to the school's rules.

Where there is a genuine concern, raise it properly, don't just teach your child they can pick and choose.

If everyone had the attitude you (and I) have, schools would be able to relax rules / afford discretion where it doesn't currently exist. But that's not the state of the world.

Another anecdote... Child didn't do enough work in class. Told to finish their work at home. Child's parent emails to say they couldn't do the work because their bag was full and they couldn't put their book in it. How are parents not embarrassed?! And what is that teaching the child? Just carry the goddamn book in your hand if there's no room for it in your bag!

OP posts:
Teenytinypineapple · Yesterday 16:17

Stompythedinosaur · Yesterday 15:43

I imagine "properly challenge a rule" is code for "ask politely and accept the answer". The belief that societal structures can effectively be changed through that mechanism is an issue of privilege, because powerless groups generally won't be listened to.

So, no, I don't think it's good to teach that to children.

I think it's nonsense to suggest schools are perfect, their policies are applied fairly or that teachers always make the right choice. It's a fantasy.

Blind trust and servile obedience are not traits that constructive members of society hold.

Absolutely not. It means establish the school's jurisdiction to set rules, consider the rule in question and whether the school was within its right to do so, review the policy for how breach of the rule should be handled and analyse the actual handling of the breach. If the school is in the wrong, make a report to HoY, SLT, Head, trust, LA, Ofsted as necessary. If the school is not in the wrong, either suck it up as something you just don't like, start a petition to get the backing of other parents, or move your child to a different establishment with rules you do approve of.

I haven't once said schools are perfect but I would say their job is being made significantly harder by the sorts of attitudes that so many children now have in believing they can pick and choose which rules to follow based on how stupid they think they are.

OP posts: