AIBU to think challenging school rules can harm children’s resilience?

[Teenytinypineapple]

AIBU to think that many of those parents who push back against schools and their rules are completely oblivious to the damage they're doing to their children?

The children who do the best are those whose parents instill in them that they should conform. Yes, that will cause difficulties at times. Yes, there will be things they don't like. But that's life. That's how children develop resilience.

Whilst little Timmy and his Mommy are complaining about the school sending him home for wearing the wrong shoes, little Jimmy has learned to suck it up, wear the damn shoes, get his head down and realise it's up to him to make the most of his education.

I disagree. I'm a stickler for rules and I always supported the school even (very occasionally) when I thought they were wrong.

With hindsight, now DC are adults, confirming isn't always best, and I would suggest the most successful adults are those who don't conform and for whom questioning the norm comes naturally.

My kids rebelled. Couldn't wait to leave. Any ambition they had going in at year 7 was destroyrd within 6 months. And yet at primary they loved school. It wasn't the rules about uniform or punctuation or being well behaved it was the sheer pettiness of some of the staff towards them for stupid things and when trying to explain they were put down. They want to call them young adults and expect them to behave that way but the staff act more like children. It's archaic and hasn't changed in decades. Today they get detentions in the old days it was the cane. Victorian mind set.

Teaching your child to be a doormat is setting them up for a lifetime of being abused and taken advantage of.

I disagree and I work across many schools.

I guess that by resilience you mean work ethic?

I don't agree with following rules, (or anyone in authority position), just because they are in authority, and 'those are the rules'. I raised my children to think for themselves and not jump off a cliff just because someone tells them to do that.

However, it's a fine line to tread. We must all learn that to get along in life, we have to turn up on time, listen, obey the rules (but it's fine to question them and disobey them if we feel we are being misled) and toe the line because that is what will be expected and necessary in the world of work.

well it depends. I’m not sure how society would look if everyone had just blindly complied with the ‘rules’ through history.

But yes, I agree to some extent that some parents can kick up a fuss over the most minor issues.

Do you work in a school?

I'm sure some parents are a pain in the arse. Certain of it, I've met plenty. But if you think that all school rules are fair and promote justice then you're wrong.

I've challenged, and will continue to challenge, rules which impact the ability of all children to access education. So for example in my children's school where they're only allowed to wear the logo school coat to school. Parents are forced to send their children without a coat if they can't afford that or have their children in detention? That one is batshit.

Totally disagree - cus in real life you don’t get in trouble at work for the wrong socks or shoes

and you need to learn how to advocate for yourself and not just follow rules in your life so you don’t get taken advantage of or pushed around

Dickensian. To the workhouse with you child!!

I am sure - absolutely sure - there is always a point to every school rule. Whether you think there’s a valid exemption that hasn’t been allowed for, or whether you think the point of the rule is plain wrong, is a different matter.

For example recently there was a thread about a mum refusing to share flight information after taking her child out of school for an unauthorised extended holiday, even though the school repeatedly explained the request was for safeguarding purposes. Just because SHE didn’t understand the point of the rule, doesn’t make it pointless.

Unfortunately you do, try turning up to a warehouse without steel toecaps.

Please tell me the point in the rule that says boys are allowed black socks but girls aren’t. I’ve spent 8 years trying to figure that one out.

I disagree. Children and adults who blindly conform don't do the best. It's somewhere in the middle, the most successful need to have critical thinking skills to recognise when something doesn't make sense or isn't right, they need the confidence and communication skills to challenge things they disagree with and they need to know when they suck it up and get on with it. They don't develop them skills by being told they have to conform at all times.

Absolutely not, I think you’re dead wrong.

My school used to say that girls couldn’t wear trousers. I did a petition to challenge this and the head etc got really angry with those involved when it ended up in the local paper. The school was obviously wrong and had to change their policy over time.

It does not breed resilience to follow out dated arbitrary uniform rules. YABU.

Yeah definitely, a little discomfort is good for all of us. It’s not healthy to believe the world will reshape to your preferences. i think children who struggle with this young will often struggle to manage later.

It’s not about being a conformist, there are times and places for things. DD looks like she’s insane when she’s outside of school but in school it’s all glowing reports about behaviour etc etc. She knows whats appropriate and when and thats the key thing, you have to know how to function within whatever framework you are operating in, thats not being quiet and obedient. She’s definitely brushed up against it a few times but has built enough good will to not get herself in any trouble.

It’s about understanding how to leverage and influence within the environment you are in and the people you are dealing with. If your ideas around conformity start and stop within uniform then I think this is just fussing, girls being able to wear trousers is reasonable to object to but on the whole we have a shallow idea of conformity. Thats the other thing, being able to identify what is important and what is not. I want DD to feel comfortable saying what she thinks and challenging ideas and engaging with her environment in a thoughtful and critical way.

I couldn’t agree more.

Imagine walking into your workplace and its pissing down with rain. As you step through the door your manager is there saying you have to work an extra hour unpaid as you haven't taken your coat off before coming into the workplace.
Yes in many academies, coats on in the hallways is a punishable offence. Some of the rules have become utterly ridiculous and I do not think it harms children to have parents stand up for them.

Depends on the rules really, i have pushed back on one and made it clear to one of my children that the rule was a silly one

no socks with tights…still dont get it

i only emailed the school, we had one or two emails and the last one the school sent said ‘i trust we now have your full support’ they didn’t

Although I can see your argument and did go down this route a bit, the upshot was my daughter got so anxious about getting things wrong in a sea of ever growing rules and deadlines and late marks and rewards etc that she became quite ill for want of a better word.

She has taken elements of her fear of disobedience through with her in her life but mostly she’s much recovered in a less regimented university environment. I wish I’d told school to hop along on occasion and taught her not to be so submissive.

So only clever children have boundaries, is your belief?

What awful thing will happen if they take their coats off? This is what I mean about fussing about trivial things.

Kick off with the school about badly delivered education, safety etc etc. these things are important. Being asked to take your coat off when you get in is not a big deal.

You do have to conform in many jobs - NHS - clinical staff have to wear certain types of footwear, most work places have a dress code of some sort, either for safety reasons or company ‘look’.

It depends on the rules and also how they are enforced. My DD's primary school had a policy of black or white trainers, not generally enforced. Hers were black and white and her teacher had a go at her. I wasn't going to buy a second pair of trainers for school. Particularly when the school didn't enforce it with everyone, just the compliant, rule abiding children. Other children had purple ones, sparkly ones, light up ones. I just told her that they could take it up with me, as I decide what we buy.

Rules need to make sense and be uniformly applied.

and be uniformly applied

this is key

Actually I once showed up to work in lace-up shoes and woolly tights. I had to walk a mile in -15 degrees.
The dress code was heeled court shoes and nylon tights. I was told not to come in again. (Temporary job.)
The socks rule at the school where i now work is due to the queen bees imposing their own uniform rule which is branded white sports socks and skirts rolled an inch above the buttocks.
There are reasons, sometimes so tedious explaining them is really depressing.