To be disappointed Dolly Parton supported biological men using women's toilets?

[Jane3212]

I really liked her music and she seemed like a nice person: her Imagination Library came to my borough recently. I was very sad to hear she'd died.
But was very disappointed to read this. The statements she made about trans people deserving respect, no issue with those.
But minimising the reasonable concerns women have about being forced to let men in their toilets was wrong.
I'm not saying she should have spoken out for GC issues. It might have been best just not to comment.
Parton had connections with drag queens and I wonder if that's the lens she saw transwomen through : not an excuse but might partially explain.

Second wave feminism is well known. You need to brush up your feminist history. Are you going to ask me what a suffragette is next?

Agree.

So you say I subscribe to a particular ideology but you don’t know what that is. Right.

Lots of statements and sound bites but not really any explanations from the FWR haters this morning 😬.

So well known you can’t articulate what it is.

If either of you want to have a bash at explaining what you mean please crack on.

So well known it has a Wikipedia page. What is going on in this thread?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-wave_feminism

Can you tell me what it is, then? It doesn’t appear to me to be any type of recognisable kind of feminism, but I’m here for the education.

Wes is attempting to shut the conversation down.

I’m not going to pander to faux ignorance. If you really haven’t heard of a significant period of feminist history your interest in the subject must be very limited. There are plenty of writers who can help you out like Friedan, de Beauvoir and Dworkin.

You said I subscribe to a particular ideology, so you should be telling me. What ideology is that? I wasn’t aware I did so if anyone should be doing the educating it’s you, to me.

Google also exists. I am boggled that someone would openly admit to never having heard of second wave feminism and not even look it up.

Sealioning. I’ve seen it all before.

If you put "inclusive feminism" into google the entire first page (I didn't check the next pages) is full with various organisation declaring their transinclusive feminism, I just grabbed the first one. Trans-inclusive is absolutely everywhere at universities, in the charity sector and in political parties, like the various Greens, the LibDems and large parts of Labour and extremely so in the SNP. This is real life.

I’m bothered about women, having the right, to have their single sex spaces and sports remaining so. I find aspects of trans ideology very problematic,
especially for teens and young adults. I believe that anyone who wants to include men in their definition of ‘feminism’ isn’t a feminist.

I’m not sure why you find the above so difficult and problematic. Is that clear enough for you? I obviously care about other things as people can care about more than one issue, at the same time, but this is what we’re on.

That’s exactly what you’re doing. Just sentences but no explanations to what you’re actually saying. I’ve been told I subscribe to a particular ideology, news to me. But it’s declining to ask what that is?! Fucking brilliant.

By asking questions. You are just making statements with no explanations, I’d say that would be ‘shutting conversation down’.

What do you mean no explanation? You said you were willing to be educated. I’ve provided the link. Go educate yourself.

It’s not an area that I’ve heard or nor had interest in. Doesn’t bother me, shouldn’t boggle you.

If you state you are something you should really be able to articulate what that is, not rely on others to look it up, no?

Where did I say that? A poster described herself as something, I asked what that something was? I don’t actually care enough to start trawling Wikipedia to be honest.

Anyone want to try and answer why wanting women to have certain spaces and sports remain single sex is apparently problematic? Anyone?

Right I’m away to make a coffee.

Thank you for at least being polite. I do appreciate that.

’Trans-inclusive’ though doesn’t translate to ‘everyone believes transwomen are women’ personally. To me, it simply means co-existing without obvious bigotry, no matter my personal thoughts.

To be fair, it was me that said I was willing to be educated on Wes’ ideology. I

i still haven’t heard back tho

No it doesn't surprise me. She was a live and let live person who was probably confident enough not to feal threatened by a man in a womens toilet. I wouldn't particularly like it myself. But wouldn't find it completely unaceptable just a thought oh for heavens sake this is a woman's toilet. But a changing room now I couldn't put up with that.

Simple search. Not rocket science really is it? Maybe Google is broken for some people today?

Maybe they just don’t give a fuck.