AIBU to think my husband is too harsh about five-year-olds cartwheel?

[Fawncard]

Me and DH are married 7 years.
We have a 5 year old DD, DD and DH constantly clash. He thinks it's funny winding her up but she often gets upset about it and he sometimes wont stop until she is in tears. Like let me be clear its mostly just childish stuff like taking the cup he knows she likes things like that he will always give it back to her but he seems to enjoy seeing her get annoyed which is starting to become a red flag for me.
Anyway over the last 2 days DD has being trying to do a cartwheel.... she thinks she can do a cartwheel (she cannot do a cartwheel and does not want advice on how to do a cartwheel she wants to do it "herself") she has been practicing and practicing. When she asks me to watch her I will find something positive, "well done you are working really hard at that" "woah that one was much higher" etc etc. But DH just keeps going "that's not a cartwheel" and keeps giving her unwanted advice and putting on videos of kids doing actual cartwheels which is annoying and upsetting DD and today she again ended upnin tears and DH just seems so unapologetic about it.
He says he doesn't want her to be "delusional" but at her age I wanted to be a bloody unicorn 5 year olds are allowed to be delusional.
He thinks I'm being too soft I think he's being an arsehole. AIBU?

If he genuinely has no idea how to interact appropriately with other human beings then I'm afraid it's your job to explain it to him repeatedly until it goes in.

I don't think that's the actual problem here. I suspect he understands perfectly well that his behaviour is unacceptable, he just doesn't care.

A grown man pointscoring against a 5 year old is really pathetic.

Being ND is no excuse, so am I but I brought up 3 kids to adulthood that all believe in themselves and I’ve always been their biggest champion.

seriously, I wish people would stop using neurodivergence as an excuse for men and their shitty behaviour.

He sounds horrendous. Who tries to drive their own child to tears over things like cartwheeling? He has deep seated issues and he’ll destroy your child’s self worth if he isn’t stopped. Don’t blame his ND- he’s bullying her.

I have seen this pattern too, always men, always ‘only joking’ 🙃.

Often the type to also tell women to ‘smile love it can’t be that bad’. Had lots of these type of interactions when working checkout at a shop. i think they also often interact with other men mostly through jokes, ribbing, teasing etc

It is an old fashioned approach that maybe most times is genuinely harmless and can be fun, but I also have come to believe there is more to it, a power game that gives me a big ick…. It can be part of a patriarchal expectation that a household is beholden to make sure Dad is happy and not to do anything to upset them as everyone pays whether that be in physical or emotional/atmosphere ways.
plus, I have read more than one account of child abusers being the ‘larger than life fun guy, always having a laugh’ that adds to this feeling.

i think the modern world expects more emotional intelligence from everyone, especially men, who often do continue to hold various types of power in family and relationships and their recognition of that ( or not) speaks volumes to me.

in short, he is being cruel and needs therapy!

For me the cup example is the more alarming of the two. He's teaching her she's powerless. And that that's funny to him.
When your father is not a safe place, the world never really feels safe.

What a miserable life for your DD. You should be ashamed of yourself for allowing this to happen.

I couldn’t have said it myself. If he won’t stop or actually take note of what he’s doing to his child he’d be out the door. I’ve got a 5 year old who does the same cartwheels etc me and her dad go oh wow look at how amazing they are well done for trying keep practicing you go! And all the claps and high 5s better yet we are at the point of mummy look daddy look and she’ll do a run and jump and even then we’re like oh my gosh that was incredible keep going you’re amazing and that’s exactly how it should be! I wouldn’t be with this man I’d put my child first @Fawncard and get the hell out and my child away

He sounds like my DH was. Now divorced, kids barely see him, and we are all much happier and better off. Seriously, you either need a “come to Jesus” talk with him, OR just cut your losses. He will do irreversible damage, if you don’t change something.

He thinks it’s banter but what it is is emotional abuse. Your daughter is learning that this is how men act and this may affect the relationships she has in the future. It will also be affecting her self esteem and her motivation to try things. Please stop this from happening to her, in whichever way you can, she is 5 so can not stop it herself but will carry the damage from it throughout her life

My dad passed away this year and in the 41 years of my life I can't tell you one negative thing he said to me. Do you know what that does? It creates a safety net. I know men aren't supposed to talk to me negatively or wind me up or make me cry and then I'm not supposed to let them win me back round when they do. I know that because he never did it and he called it out when he saw it. Actions speak louder than words and he respected me from day one.

Your husband needs to be the gold standard of how he wants men to treat her because what he does is what she will accept from them.

So regardless of the jokes and his own upbringing, that would be the conversation I would be having with him. Also, if he wouldn't do it to you - then he shouldn't be doing it to her. Slap that nonsense down immediately.

@Fawncard as soon as I saw your initial post, I knew youd get a massive pile on here! These threads always go the same way, DP nasty to partner or kids, thread piles on, op downplays it or blames ND.

I do think the ND is quite key here @Fawncard , it sounds like your husband's family were the same, and history is repeating itself. The question really is whether you want to stay in a relationship like this. Your daughter will end up resenting him and you to an extent. Personally I couldnt respect a man like this. Id be sitting down with him once and explaining what I thought, and getting my ducks in a row if nothing changed.

@Fawncard Because your NVDH does something nice with your DD doesn't make the rest of what he does a glitch or because he is "ND".
He is a bully, plain and simple. Anyone who gets satisfaction by making a child cry has deep mental health issues. It isn't just the cartwheel. It's the taking her favorite cup and other things he does to wind her up.

Your DDs joy, individuaism, happiness and security is being crapped on by her "daddy" and the fct that it is still happening is on you. It's your job to protect her from bullies, including the one you are married to.

ND is not an excuse, though too many use it as such.

Or what? Seems like you’ve told him to stop this behaviour a few times and he has ignored you, so realistically what are you going to do?
you really need to have a think and consider what you are willing to do to protect your daughter from this bullying, because he clearly won’t stop from just you asking him to. You should be willing to do whatever it takes to protect her, even walking away from the marriage. If this isn’t something you will seriously consider as an outcome then I don’t think anything is going to change and I feel sorry for her being exposed to this bullying.

When the target is aged 5 there is very little difference between ‘winding up’ and bullying/ emotional abuse. She is 5 and her brain is taking in everything right now about herself, whether she fits in, what other people think about her. If this is persistent he is giving her problems for life. Ask me how I know. It’s not innocuous. Stand up for her.

I think that's the only style of parenting he knows. Remind him regularly that excessive negativity and criticism in his own upbringing has affected him into adulthood. He should make an effort to be aware of what he is doing and saying, and that he to use positivity and to praise your daughter efforts about 10 times more than making negative comments to her.. It will affect her behaviour and build up resentment long term if he carries on, just as he bears his own resentment .. He must save the ' don't do that, like that' words for when she's doing unsafe things or bad behaviour . . It's important for him to understand the impact constant criticism and excessive controlling behaviour has on a young mind..

if he continues this, keep pointing it out and if he doesn't take any notice of you book him into some parenting classes and make sure he goes, for independent views.

If that fails you are going to have to consider the degree to which you can live with and watch the impact on your daughter.

@AnnoyedAsAllHeck what you say about taking her joy, security, safety individualism is so so true. It almost made me cry reading that.

Separating doesn't help, though, because all it means is that DD will then be spending solo time with ExH up to 50% of the time and he'll be foul to her and her mum won't even be there to deflect it. This is the dilemma that so many women face

He’s a bully, this is emotional abuse. You need to safeguard your child from this.

It's quite simply about control.

He has got a small person in front of him over whom he has power: he can make her cry; he can make her feel that she cannot achieve something and watch her squirm. And take delight in it.

It is sadistic it is warped.

And this is your child. What do you think this might be doing to her?

You have an absolute duty to protect her. Enough with the excuses about ND or being a "good father."

She did not ask to be born. You chose the man who is her father. He is damaging your child.

This.

Your five year old daughter is being emotionally abused by her father. It is your job to protect her.

She will grow up thinking that it’s normal for a man who is supposed to love her to bully and control her.

I find this very upsetting. I had no contact with either of my parents for the last twenty years of their lives - and while obviously there was worse stuff than this going on in my childhood, this kind of emotional abuse absolutely was part of it. The goading, the criticism, my emotions used for sport. And the more negative and critical my father was to me (to toughen me up, obviously 🙄), the harder I danced around him to make him like me.

How do you think that played out when I was trying to form healthy adult relationships? What effect do you think it had for self destructive behaviours and self harming?

I also didn't trust myself as a parent, so when I had my own children I made damn sure that the man I had them with had enough gumption and backbone to put them first and protect them from me if need be.

It's time to step up, OP.

To my mind this is emotional abuse.

The man you are married to is abusing your Daughter. Get him away from her.

I don't understand how you're not stepping in! I don't really care who is mean to my child and brings them to tears, if they've been mean then I will tell them and I'll protect my children. You can do it directly, or have a quiet word, or do it in a "daddy isn't being very kind" way, but you need to stop this behaviour. If a child came to play over and said horrid things to your dd, surely you would step in and guide them to being pleasant and appropriate. Do the same with your dh.
People who have had shitty parents do find it hard to imagine a different role. I'd suggest a very serious chat, and discuss how parenting is a skill and understanding child psychology and development isn't just a natural thing, see if you can direct him to resources that might help (my dh hates reading but we both like the odd parenting podcast for example). He needs to step up otherwise this will be horrendous once you hit teenage years. Thus would be a divorce issue for me (and I'd be pushing for as much custody as possible).