AIBU to feel upset after my meeting with my manager?

[derFutterneid]

I have been working somewhere for nearly 10 years, after being a SAHM. I loved my job, but the company has gone through many restructures and it has changed completely.

Over the past 2 years we have had many redundancies and people not replaced. As a result my workload has massively increased. On top of this many of my colleagues have sought out doctors notes, and other things to exempt them from certain tasks. I have been given this extra work too. This has caused me a lot of stress. It also affects others and a few of my work colleagues are now on antidepressants or have left. Our staff turnover is horrendous. People are leaving with no job to go to. Everyone is unhappy and it is a toxic environment.

Anyway, I had my appraisal and it went OK, but afterwards I realised I had been downgraded. I asked some of my colleagues, not directly, but they confirmed they received higher. I was really upset about this, as I'd say I was one of a few people who do the lions share. I even manage the department when there is no manager. Since my boss is on holiday I asked the next level up (it is usual to escalate to this person) about my appraisal.

What then followed has really shocked me. I was told that it had been agreed amongst them to downgrade me as whilst my work was excellent and appreciated, I had a bad attitude and my behaviours are not aligning with what they list as what we should be demonstrating. Apparently people say hello to me, and I have my head down and barely acknowledge them or I am in a mood and people tread on eggshells around me. I am a thorn in the managers side, and I bring problems to the manager but not solutions. I am abrupt. I was totally shocked by this because in the 30 years that I have been working, and the many appraisals I have had, I have never had this feedback. In fact I have constantly been told I am very popular and respected and a go to person if someone needs help. I have never worked with this manager. It felt like a character assassination.

Some points;

I asked for some specific examples, but they could not name one.

I have never had a complaint made about me by a customer, or by a colleague in 10 years.

Apparently I am too outspoken, but they specifically asked me to join a group of staff to talk about branch issues. I asked to step down from this and was asked to stay as my opinions are valued. After one meeting the head of the company told my manager that they were really impressed with how I professionally handled myself. Seeing me upset, a friendly manager told me that I had pissed off one of the managers by questioning something, and that the company ask for my opinion, but don't always like the answers.

In this company, I have had at least 18 appraisals and mid years, and not once have I ever had feedback on my attitude. There is no history of this whatsoever.

Now, I am not disputing my attitude and behaviours. However I asked them to put it into context. I am covering a very large portion of the workload. I have asked to reduce my hours, and change my days (there is one week a month where I work 7 out of 8 days in a row). I come home stressed out and crying. I have raised concerns numerous times about my workload and improving my work life balance. These have all been rejected as we are short staffed and it doesn't suit the business. I asked to move department and they have said no. So, with that in mind, yes I look stressed, I look unhappy, I may not be skipping along saying hello to everyone. However, no one has complained about me, neither staff member or client.

Apparently they have observed this about me for a while, and my manager should have addressed it with me, but they did not. Even though I spent an hour and a half in my appraisal. Apparently they are too scared of me. I am in my 50's and they are in their late 20's.

FYI this is a minimum wage job. I do have another PT job which I can increase the hours. I don't really need the money, but I saved and invested all that I earned and felt I was contributing to my household and our future.

This manager suggested that I get my manager and a couple of other managers who also work along side me in a room and they tell me bluntly about my attitude and behaviours, I can then go away, reflect on it, and come back acting differently. I don't really like the sound of this!!!

My DH is not being very supportive about me leaving. He says I shouldn't till I get another job, but I just don't see how I can stay if this is what they think of me. My adult DC say that I am going to end up having a heart attack or stroke and it is not worth it.

AIBU to be upset, or is this kind of feedback normal?

What would you advise me?

What's stopping me leaving;

The money was invested and it feels good.
I like to be busy, and have structure to my week.
I'm in my 50's, it'll be hard to get another job. However, I do have another job that I enjoy and I can develop (I am a pilates instructor)

Take their excellent advice on board and spend the majority of the day smiling and chatting to people. Friendliness is so important, clearly it’s much more important than effective, productive work. If drinking endless cups of tea, and wafting around the office chatting is what they want, then get on with it and drop any personal obligation you feel to the work. It’s not valued.

And train up for Pilates, there’s a huge shortage of Pilates classes in my area!

I wouldn't continue the angst with a grievance, but you're spot on about how this has been handled

While recognising that some in their twenties make excellent managers, learning to do it properly usually takes time and a lot more experience, and those without it often flail around trying to give an impression of managing with chaotic results

As a PP said, someone with much greater experience can make them feel nervous, and resenting this they'll target that person instead ... but only if they allow them to

It's worse than that - it wasn't even brought up at appraisal. She noticed her downgrading afterwards. The character assassination only occured when she spoke to a manager afterwards about the reasons for being downgraded.

I think they are treating you awfully but please think about things before going sick. Chat to Acas or union. If they haven't raised your attitude before then downgrade you surely that's constructive dismissal? I'd agree you need to leave but a payout would help. The "meeting a group in a room to be told how your attitude is" stinks.. Bullying, harassment. Good luck

They can't give you a bad reference, its not allowed.

They can if it's factual and evidenced. But a they won't have evidence of the OP consistently turning up late, swearing at customers and colleagues or anything like that, they won't be able to in this case.

Book leave if you want, but depending on when your leave year runs, it will be pro-rated, so if it starts January and you leave at end of September, you'll only be entitled to 3/4 of your normal leave allowance, and you've presumably already taken some this year. You should either take, or be paid for any that hasn't been taken.

I would give a very simple resignation, "I am resigning from my role. According to my contract, I must give 1 month's notice; therefore my last day will be (1 month from today.)"

You could raise a grievance if you want, but you should get union/ACAS advice first. If you're going to resign anyway, consider whether it's worth the stress. I'd be very surprised if you'd get constructive dismissal - the bar is high, and resigning after one poor appraisal when you aren't staying to be there all smiley and positive attitude isn't going to do it. However, if you do want to investigate it, be aware it's got some tight timelines.

I do hope your manager also had a poor appraisal - nothing in an appraisal should come as a surprise, be it good or bad; it should be dealt with at the time, and not being able to give examples of your apparent wrong-doings is also poor - though if they had had any, you could have asked why they didn't bring it up at the time. But I have been around long enough to be under no illusion that that will actually happen, and if the whole company is like this, they're probably being praised for strong management of difficult staff.

Someone once said, "Is the person giving you feedback someone you would go to when you need advice? If the answer is no, why woukd you care about what they think when you haven't asked?"

Just to add that no information should come as a suprise during an appraisal....appraisals are a formal means only to document feedback and set objectives for the coming year. The real conversations and check ins to see how you're doing should be taking place on an ongoing basis. Reading your comments shows to me how unprofessional and inexperienced your manager is to only raise their concerns now. That validates to me that there is not much weight or credibility in what they are saying.... And on top of that, if they were a good manager and noticed a change in your behaviour, why did they not ask you before now if you were ok or needed any support. The answer to that is because they are SHIT MANAGERS and are in way over their heads.

You should hold your head up high. Don't let them knock your confidence and you'll find once you're out of this toxic work environment you'll feel more like yourself again.

I wish you every success with your other endeavours. 🥰

This is a fight you can’t win, so leave in the way that will piss them off the most. See your GP, get signed off and give notice. You’ll be paid during your notice period and can swan off into the wide blue yonder to Pilates peace 🙂

Your post is very professional and much of it could be feedback to them. I suspect you are on the receiving end of some intersectional bias here. An older man would be seen as assertive and competent at dealing with an overly increased workload. Although he probably wouldn’t have been given it and if he was, would have been promoted before taking it on.

I recently left a company I had worked at for over 10 years in a role that I had loved. It took me ages to decide to leave as I kept thinking it was about to get better - but it didn’t, it only got worse and I was left close to burnt out. Crying, not sleeping and close family telling you you’re going to have a heart attack are all clear signs of being stressed - if you decided to go on sick leave you would be doing it for genuine reasons. It gives you a bit of time to recuperate and think more objectively about things. It doesn’t sound like a nice job at all - but I know what it’s like to hold onto something where it used to be so good. The relief I felt when I handed in my notice was huge - mixed with guilt and sadness. but several months down the line I don’t regret it for a second, and the space has given me the opportunity to look back and see just how crazy the workplace had become!
good luck in whatever you decide to do.

Just to say, absolutely can be off sick from one job while continuing in a second job.
Different jobs require different skills and levels of function. Job 1 is the cause of the stress, needs to be off to get better. Job 2 is therapeutic, is helping to lower stress and contributes to recovery.

In terms of going off sick - it is a bit trickier if you are still doing your Pilates work while signed off sick - as while the obvious common sense answer would be that it's your current job that's the issue and not the Pilates it could muddy the waters a bit. So maybe just resign rather than go off sick.

I agree too. I love pilates and my class tomorrow has 6 people on a waiting list for a spot!

Are you mainly women? This is horrific and will explain underlying prejudice towards an older competent woman.

Definitely go off sick. Email them with the reasons why, specifically the issues with working without a day off, them asking you to up your hours when you are already overworked, refusing your requests, expecting you to cover as manager etc. All this has led to work related stress and you can no longer cope with it.
don’t give them an inkling you might go off until you are sure you can get a GP appointment then mention feeling stressed. Then drop them in it to cope without you and see how they get on. Take the maximum amount of paid sick that you can but make sure there’s no caveats in your HR policy over sick leave. Then resign if you still want to.

Im a person who never takes sick leave or advises people to go off, but in your case you need to go off for your own wellbeing and why should you just resign when they’ve made your life so difficult?

I think you're in the work equivalent of an abusive relationship, blaming you for their shit behaviour.
Get out, honestly. Go off sick. Going by my partners also awful work place it seems to be the done thing to get signed off for a month or so while looking for another job.

Don't look for another job whilst off sick. Its not allowed. If you were to attend an interview whilst signed off you could be disciplined. You don't need any more.stress. it looks bad for other potential employers. By all.means take some time out but watch your back. Its sounds like your current employer has an issue with you, don't give them any ammunition. I don't suppose you are in a union. They could support you

Don't rush your resignation today. Plan your moves to gain the best advantage for you. Make a GP appointment tomorrow and get a certificate for stress while you are planning your next move
Not having to go into work will bring immediate benefits. Let them cope with your absence and see your work value.
Your manager has behaved disgracefully, indeed the whole managrment group has. They have clearly been discussing you but couldn't speak to you directly.
You have all the advantages going forward. Plan and use the next few weeks wisely knowing the end goal.
Please speak to ACAS before you resign.

I could have written this 10 years ago. Very toxic environment & I just couldn’t do it anymore even tho I loved the work I did. I spent a week crying every night & questioning life in general, knee jerked handing in my resignation - the relief was immense & I have absolutely no regrets. With hindsight I should have gone off sick & spoken to ACAS, but I just wanted to get away & knew if I had been signed off sick I would have gone back. In the 6 months after I left 3/4 of the team left as well.

This all happened at a time when I lost people around my age & I just decided life is too short to be so unhappy. I wish you future happiness in whatever you decide to do 💐

Superb post. The work equivalent of an abusive relationship.

Don’t let mumsnet make you resign tho. They will owe you lots in redundancy so you could play the game and switch off and don’t do what the workload won’t allow. That would be the best option. They are trying to manage you out cos you are expensive.

I'm so cross on your behalf. I had something similar at work and we were all made to feel like a naughty schoolgirls. I'm in my 50s! Never in all my 30 years of working life had I encountered that! Toxic! It's their behaviour that they need to look at!! Grrrrr

This is absolutely rubbish, depending on your policy you can work a second job while on sick from the first job especially if it's a completely different job and your stress is work related. Also how can they stop you looking for a job, or applying whether you are working or signed off sick? I work in HR and I can't even imagine having that conversation with someone let alone starting a disciplinary process. Just check your absence policies, some won't pay enhanced sick leave if you hand your notice and then go off sick, but you will get statutory pay.

I think they want you to quit or find flimsy reason to sack you to avoid paying you redundancy.

They sound like awful employers.

I would start job hunting and from now on don't do any extra work and always leave on time.

If they use made up reasons to push you out then tell them you are going to take them to an employment tribunal.

If you are really stressed to the point of being unwell then take some sick leave and watch them try to cope without you to pick up all the extra workload...

If you honestly don't need the money, then leave. Concentrate on your pilates business, and build it up. You'll be less stressed, and therefore in a better frame of mind to do more training for pilates qualifications.

No job is worth making yourself stressed and unwell. Your children are correct, if you keep up this level, you'll end up having a heart attack or breakdown.

The management want all their staff to walk around like they're working at Disney, but aren't addressing the poor morale within the company. Morale is low due to the awful workload and the management aren't taking any proactive steps to solve the situation. If you're the type of person who calls a spade a spade, then sadly, not employers appreciate being told the truth. They'd much rather you agree with their narrative, and gloss over problems.

If money isn't an issue, why your husband isn't being supportive of you leaving, I really don't know. His priority should be your physical and mental wellbeing, not topping up the savings account.

If you dont need the money leave, you health is more important. Xx