AIBU to stop helping after injuring myself lifting elderly neighbour?

[Barney221]

We are a rural road of 5 houses. One house is lived in by an elderly couple one of which has dementia and the other is paralyzed. Over the last few years the gentleman who is paralyzed has fallen frequently and the rest of us have been called and gone and picked him up. We are all 60 plus except for one lad in his 20s.

This afternoon all the male members of the 3 closest homes were out. He fell from his wheelchair in his mobility van and as the only 2 people available my female neighbour and I were summoned by his wife. She and I couldn't get him up so rang another elderly male neighbour. He came and he worked from the front whilst I pulled him from the back. We got him into the wheelchair but it then slipped back into me propelling me backwards down the ramp and off it onto the tarmac drive. Hes fine but I've had to go to a and e and I've got ruptured ligaments in one knee and bruising rand cuts to both and I'm struggling to walk. I'm unlikely to be able to drive for a few days and I'm self employed.

My husband is livid and is saying that he will call the couples kids tomorrow and tell them we are no longer available to pick him up. This will include DHs brother who Is one of 5 houses. Is that unreasonable?

@Barney221 I'm interested to know who was driving the van? Not him, presumably, if he's paralysed. Surely not the person with dementia?

tell the adult children but don't blame them. It's no fun being held responsible for the actions of someone who isn't managing but flatly refuses to recognise this and agree to arrange proper help.

Whilst I agree with the sentiment of not lifting if you don't feel it's safe or you're not physically able, the idea that you cant/mustn't lift anyone from the floor is nonsense.

Firstly - theres absolutely no legal risk in rendering first aid measures in the UK, helping someone up is absolutely first aid and no one is coming after you - you're extremely well protected. It would only be a risk in something as mad as "please don't move me I can't feel my legs", "don't worry I know best I'm going to pull you up into this chair, stop screaming, you'll be fine when I get you up...".

Secondly, and I say this as someone who works in the ambulance service frontline and on the phones - we probably aren't going to come until they've been on the floor so long they start deteriorating and becoming unwell. Unless you live in an area with falls teams (often volunteers), or its particularly quiet.

That's why you occasionally hear about 90yr old Dorris who slipped on the driveway in January and couldn't get up, left on the floor by ambulance service for 8 hours.... It got to the situation where there are so many frail people living on their own falling multiple times a day we just don't have the capacity to cover it, if there's no injury then not classed as an emergency and goto the bottom of the list. If it's busy then who ever called will get the no send script, if the person is on their own then we call neighbours etc to see if they can help. If it's a care home following a 'no lift' policy we have to make them aware that as they have lifting equipment in the home, they have the means and a duty of care to look after their residents, that because there is no injury apparent we can't come until it becomes an emergency (long lie/over an hour on the floor can cause kidney failure -our response time is commonly 4-6hrs), can I take your name because I need it documented who's refusing to get them up which is likely to lead to patient harm...I advise you to make sure you've got a copy of the no lifting policy and be sure that your employer really has taken on this duty of care for themselves."

What makes it worse though is that we are all blue lighting around to 30yr old with 4month history of back pain (some triage tool thinking it's a heart problem), 4yr old with fever (very mobile, just needs running upto a&e in the car and if it does turn out to be meningitis then you'll be seen at least an hour sooner by making own way). Just doing my drugs audit for the year last month - I'd only had to administer medications to patients 23 times in the last 12 months - of all the patients I'd been sent to only 23 needed treatment beyond a chat and a ride.... Oh and a good chunk of that 23 was oral paracetamol.

We absolutely should be prioritising elderly fallers over the nonsense we spend our careers going to. But you've got to remember that in a city of 500 000, you will have around 30 ambulances on duty in the day, 20 at night. If we are the only ones picking up elderly fallers we are not going to be doing anything else.

The attitude of selfish and thoughtless neighbours will never surprise me. Tha's why nowadays I am NC with my neighbours and never open the door.

Few years back I got myself into the position of being virtual PA to a neighbour in the next street when I filled in a benefit form for her. Soon I was making her phone calls, doing her shopping and other life admin. When I pointed out she had a son at home she excused him as being "not good" at those things. She was also dropping in twice a week for a 2 hour natter when I was working at home. Until I convinced her that the uni I worked for required us all in the office. I gradually withdrew the services and made it harder for her to contact me.

She moved away and 2 years went by. Then she contacted me again because her benefit form needed renewing. "Well sorry I am a non driver and you live across the city now". She assured me that her son would give me a lift there and back so I foolishly agreed. Well the benefit form took a long time (as she kept losing interest and nodding off) so I had to offer to come back again to complete it. Meanwhile her son sat drinking beer and watching TV. He then announced that he could not take me home as promised because he had been drinking so offered to call me a taxi.

"Well I don't have any money with me for for a taxi as I was promised a lift." Assuming they would pay for the taxi in the circumstances.

"Surely you have money at home".

"Yes I do have money at home but I don't expect to have to spend my own money to do someone else a favour."

So after doing a good turn I had to pay for my own taxi home. I was livid. Next day when the lady rang I refused to answer. She rang and rang all day and into the evening. My visiting nephew then answered and gave her down the banks for luring me down on the promise of a lift and then making me pay for a taxi home. He was very harsh and there were lots of swear words. Her only concern seemed to be that she had a half completed benefit form. He told her to take it to the CAB. We then blocked her number.

You shouldn't be picking people up, even medical professionals/carers won't do it. If he falls and can't get up, alert his family who should then contact NHS and they will attend (eventually) with appropriate lifting aides.

This post is seriously depressing.

I disagree with not getting at the adult children. Your DH is right. You as neighbours have been put at risk by being blackmailed into providing a service that you are not equipped to give. If you in turn make it uncomfortable for them then they will put more pressure on their parents. How they solve the situation is up to them. But you are currently enabling an untenable situation. Its time for tough love.

I agree, the children need to be made aware of the real situation. It's gone too far for good neighbours.

I mean, you obviously know it's not unreasonable to stop doing something when you've injured yourself doing it. Pass the information along to the kids and then bow out completely.

Not saying you’re not right, but my neighbour called 999 when her husband had a fall and she couldn’t get him up. Ambulance took 6 hours to arrive and he had a broken hip.

If you tell them to call an ambulance you also have to be prepared to hold the line and not go round, because the ambulance will take a long time

If this is happening repeatedly they need assessment by OT for falls prevention, and a falls alarm linked to a service who will come out and safely get someone up after a fall. Untrained people hoicking someone up risks injury to all involved. In an emergency you can all 999 - paramedics can safely get someone up (but they may not get there very quickly)

You mean stop walking?

What can the adult children do? The only solution if someone is falling all the time is sometimes mobility aids, but often the only solution is stop walking. It's very hard to accept you should never walk. Your world shrinks.

It sounds heartless but you need to stop. I damaged my back because my gran used to fall frequently and me and my mum would go round to lift her (if my dad wasn't available). My dad has now damaged his wrist and elbow because many years later it was my mum who used to fall and he lifted her up.
Now it was slightly different because in my case it was family so I wasn't going to stop but you don't have the same obligation. You've already hurt yourself, you don't want to end up with permanent damage.
Having said that I don't know what your DH is expecting their children to do. They can't stop their parents from asking you, but you can say no.

Simply refuse. Don't do it. You have paid the price for being nice.

You can continue to help but be a lot more careful about what you actually do and that can calling for an ambulance.

Sounds like they need carers going in a couple of times a day and specialist equipment installing at the least!

I’m glad you’ve agreed on this. I’m a carer so deal with falls frequently. We only assist to get people up if they can mobilise themselves. For example we put a chair next to them and advise ( very light physical help) them how to use the chair to get up.
I would NEVER physically manoeuvre someone who cannot stand unaided back in to a wheelchair.This is very dangerous for you and them. How to they go to the toilet, to bed, wash and change? Also do you know the cause of every fall- have they had a stroke? Internal bleeding? Getting off the floor is not the only issue!
Ambulance every single time. They will make a social services referral too which should help everyone. Good luck.

Thank god no body tried to get him up before the ambulance came. A ‘helpful ‘ neighbour in that situation would have been catastrophic. Obviously it’s awful the ambulance took so long !

You need to just call an ambulance. They are specially trained and have the right equipment.

This arrangement is bizarre and totally inappropriate. Carers and medical staff have training and sometimes equipment to help in these situations. Someone was bound to end up injured. With their health needs do they not have carers coming in during the day?

Our neighbour went through similar and kept asking neighbours for help picking him up. Both my husband and I have back issues so suggested calling the ambulance. They did this but had to wait hours. However after a few calls, adult social care were automatically notified and a carers package was put in place.

The neighbours need a proper care assessment, but I suspect want to avoid any formal intervention in favour of getting neighbours to help. That’s unreasonable.

I work on a helpline and had a phone call a few months ago where the caller had helped lift an elderly woman up, had slipped himself and ended up needing a hip replacement.
his health will never be the same again.