AIBU to stop helping after injuring myself lifting elderly neighbour?

[Barney221]

We are a rural road of 5 houses. One house is lived in by an elderly couple one of which has dementia and the other is paralyzed. Over the last few years the gentleman who is paralyzed has fallen frequently and the rest of us have been called and gone and picked him up. We are all 60 plus except for one lad in his 20s.

This afternoon all the male members of the 3 closest homes were out. He fell from his wheelchair in his mobility van and as the only 2 people available my female neighbour and I were summoned by his wife. She and I couldn't get him up so rang another elderly male neighbour. He came and he worked from the front whilst I pulled him from the back. We got him into the wheelchair but it then slipped back into me propelling me backwards down the ramp and off it onto the tarmac drive. Hes fine but I've had to go to a and e and I've got ruptured ligaments in one knee and bruising rand cuts to both and I'm struggling to walk. I'm unlikely to be able to drive for a few days and I'm self employed.

My husband is livid and is saying that he will call the couples kids tomorrow and tell them we are no longer available to pick him up. This will include DHs brother who Is one of 5 houses. Is that unreasonable?

Mil fell at home in Brighton. 17 hours for an ambulance.!!!

He fell at 3 in the morning, his wife couldn’t lift him and didn’t want to disturb anyone. The first any of us knew of it was when the ambulance turned up at 9:30.

Neighbours and paramedics all told her she absolutely should have disturbed us.

If he has capacity he can make any decision he likes about care BUT what he can't do is put OP and other neighbours at risk of injury. So he needs the conversation " we will come and put a blanket on you/give you a drink of water but we are not able to lift you and will call an ambulance or your son".
If he wishes to remain at home waiting hours s each time for an ambulance he can or they can choose a move to sheltered housing. But OP should not be put at risk. And not all care homes are shit... He has time to look for a good one now before things worse.

Please stop doing this. You and the other helpers could do serious damage to yourselves and also to the man, who could then try and sue for injuries. Adult social care need to sort it out

Sorry to hear you've been hurt.

This doesn't need to start with going mad, it needs you to be firm. I'd start with a text to the group to say that you're aware they will have been worried about you but you're out now and starting to recover. Unfortunately obviously you won't be able to help with lifts again so you suggest they have a think about what can be done next time.

Unless you have been trained to lift correctly you should not be doing it. You may injure the patient or yourself. If patient is injured as a result they could potentially sue.

You’re not unreasonable at all !!
I am in my 60s , I’m quite petite and while I’m reasonably fit ( eg long dog walks , I’m up and down stairs all the time and I can lift our sturdy kitchen chairs etc , move the sofa that sort of thing ) I am not trained on how to lift a person .
no way would I be getting involved in that sort of physical help .
the elderly person needs an alarm that alerts proper help from adult social care

see above
dont put yourselves at risk

I depends on why they are falling. Transfer aids / education on transfer techniques plus falls education can be really effective in reducing falls. I’m am OT and will often meet people who have been falling regularly but with some fairly simple changes can be much safer.
For some, sadly, they will always be at risk when they walk, so we look at mitigating that risk (supervision, timing, micro environment etc).
People are often shocked that residents are still high risk in care homes. If they are a high falls risk anyway, they’ll not magically stop falling once in care as the home can’t restrain them. The higher level of supervision will only be a positive thing, though.

Yes ambulances do take far far longer than they should, but I’d never ever advise a family member/ neighbour to lift someone who has fallen. Neither would I do it myself. You are putting both yourself and the individual at risk of further harm. If the person who has fallen is unharmed and able to move, you can help them use “backward chaining” to get into a chair / bed (Google it). Paramedics and falls pick up services have lifting cushions / seats to get people off the floor to make sure everyone is safe.

OP I hope your knee recovers well and I’m glad to hear that there’s a united front on not picking him up again. I’m also curious about who was driving the mobility van he was in when he fell?

@diddledoodum sorry I know OTs can help, so it is worth looking into. But I also know from family experience that as you say people still fall in care homes. Many people on this post seem to think if the right people get involved this man won't fall again, and that may just be unrealistic. That does not mean OP should be picking him up.

Sheltered housing won't stop falls. It's a warden about who would call an ambulance, that is all. Care homes have more aids to prevent falls, but cannot stop them.

yes but not to lift him.

This is such nonsense!!! (In the UK at least). Even if it's felt first aid/lifting exacerbated an injury you're extremely well protected against a civil or criminal suit. Besides working as a paramedic because people often fall in awkward spaces (very rare to fall in middle of empty room as per the training situation) even when back/neck/hip injuries are suspected we still just have to top and tail from the floor (grab body/arms/legs) and pull them up because no room for any kit. We don't even have any training in a particular way of doing this - officially we are not allowed but ultimately if someone is wedged somewhere then you just have to grab and pull.

If you're getting someone up off the floor there's going to be a conversation first - do you want me to try and help you up? If they say no, I'm in agony with my hip - then don't lift them. If they say yes, or "I'm a bit sore here but yes can you help me" then give it a go if you feel you're able. If they're so confused they don't understand that question - probably a medical emergency 999.

It's also worth noting that whilst members of the public are fine to refuse to help some up off the floor, carers etc do have a duty of care. If someone (especially when already frail) is left on the floor for multiple hours it can quite easily go from - just needed a quick help up/carries on with day, to event that causes significant harm/potentially death due to duration on floor. The ambulance service will just say - we were delayed to excessive demand it's unfortunate (and will be able to prove call volume etc). Carer will say "no lift policy". And we all just leave the elderly patient to suffer on the floor for hours.

I don't believe it's happened yet - but at some point some relative is going to say "hang on, my mum weighed 40kg, you even have lifting equipment in the home/there was 2 of you on that visit, you watched her suffer for 6hours waiting for an ambulance when you could have intervened - where was your duty of care".... At some point some carers are going to end up in coroner's court etc defending a refusal to lift that contributed++ to someone's death which could have been avoidable and then it can goto criminal or civil to decide how reasonable refusing to help is.

In my experience, (retired OT) sheltered housing with a warden or res care will often have suitable equipment to be able to lift someone off the floor and can be trained to do a basic assessment to see if its safe to do so. Its also possible that the actual environment may be safer but that depends upon where they are currently living. But its horses for courses and of course the person has to want to move. Please don't think that there is nothing that can be done to help to maintain safe mobility...not forever of course. There are also solutions around sitting for longer if people really do have to reduce their activity, simple things like teaching them to fidget, clothing choice, seated exercise, plus pressure relieving cuchions and backrests and suitable seating.

If someone calls for an elderly faller at 999 you will get a triage call back - essentially can you try and help them up please - if you say "no they're screaming in pain with their hip" - then we can upgrade the call, and tell you to pad around them as best you can with cushions/blankets to support. If there's no obvious injury/sounds like minor aches and pains, and being honest this is majority of cases we are talking about you're going to be asked to try and help them up - of course you can say no - but most of the time people can - occasionally an injury is discovered - I.e. had to stop moving PT the little ache in leg became severe etc and had to stop - thats fine we've identified an injury now I can upgrade the call, pad cushions around them etc. we can now be with you in 1-2hours now not 4-8hours.

"help them up" is not lifting. Are you not trained to say "do not lift them"

I disagree. I know that paramedics will too and tail someone, I’ve seen it done. I’m surprised to hear that you don’t get any additional training.

But I disagree with there being an expectation that paid carers should life someone who has fallen. A 40kg dead weight is huge. As long as the carers did what they could to help the person help themselves (the backward chaining I mentioned earlier on), and of not possible then called 999, made them comfortable and arranged for them to be looked after until the paramedics arrived, they would have done their duty. Of course they may need to attend coroners court but that doesn’t mean they would have been in any way responsible for the persons death.

Carers absolutely shoukd not be lifting people off the floor in any circumstances.

Plenty of sheltered/warden control flats now have lifting kit now and get residents up - pendent alarms in the home - they attend - run a checklist but essentially "is it ok for me to do this/do you think there's an injury/do you want me to call ambulance...". They have a duty of care over their residents, if they are providing this service to residents for which falling is not unexpected then they may have to justify why they don't have this facility.

Care homes do have process to stop/reduce falls, in theory at least.
They're supposed to be staffed to a capacity to monitor each communal room and have knowledge of residents/falls risk. Some residents will be on a 1:1 when mobilising.

So if the dementia patient who thinks they're still 20 and doesn't need a frame gets up and tottering about a carer can quickly goto them and give a frame to steady them/link an arm to provide balance, or when they're going down support the fall - I.e. not some heroic dive across the room to catch them, more of a "this residents legs are giving way I'll support them as they fall to the floor to reduce injury".

A few PPs including myself have asked if this gentleman was driving.
It is really concerning that he would be a danger to himself and others if the van was in an accident. I appreciate that many wheelchair users drive themselves of course.

Our elderly neighbour damaged his car using the doors to support himself getting out, and stabilise himself- it took a him good ten minutes. It was unsustainable. Again, rural, so unwilling to concede his independence.

That's good.

MIL was helping her neigbour and stoppe during covid due to risks - couple got very nasty and later turned out their kids had been trying to get help in the house and it had all be turned down by couple becuase with MIL help they coped.

If you do not get a good reponse from kids who may be in denial - Adult Social Care would be the next step.

I thought you were supposed to ring for an ambulance if someone has fallen and can’t get up. A friend had to more than once for her dh, since he was both tall and very overweight.

OTOH dh and I went several times to lift an elderly neighbour off the floor after his wife asked, but then he was comparatively very light so we knew it was no problem, and he’d never hurt himself.

@YourRedLurker yes that is the theory. But all care homes still have people falling within them.

i am with your husband you should not be injuring yourself in order to help. i am in the same situation by me but as you never know what injuries they may have after falls i personally would leave well alone and get an ambulance. when my rather large ex fell they managed perfectly well using inflatable cushions etc which made it very easy for two petite technicians. the family need to sort things out really