To think our public transport system needs a complete overhaul?

[creatorofthecoastguard]

I’m currently on holiday in southern Europe, and on an intercity train.

So far I’ve encountered trams that are a flat rate of €1.70 a journey, buses that are €1.50 a journey, trains that are actually affordable (£9 for a 45 minute journey across the border!), it’s all been amazing. Every train has been clean, spacious, yes busy in places but only when it’s to be expected (going to popular destinations). The intercity train I’m on now isn’t oversold, isn’t rammed full of people, there’s enough luggage space.

It’s really eye opening to how poor our public transport actually is. Expensive, poorly maintained, and poor conditions.

AIBU to think it needs an overhaul, and soon? I know it wouldn’t be cheap, and that a lot of our issues stem from post-WW2 when we didn’t upgrade our risks compared to most of Europe, but it needs doing!

Yes please.

im job hunting at the moment. My last job paid for my travel to London but that doesn’t seem to be the case with hybrid opportunities now. A return trip is £200 even booked in advance due to having to take trains before 8:30am. It’s bonkers. It’s only a 2 hour train journey.
I’d happily do more days in London if it were more affordable

I’m currently on a 6 hour trip from France to Italy. Cost me £30 to book.

My ticket home from London after this holiday will be at least £75.

It is shocking.

But however much we complain and resist all the countries mentioned on this list have higher overall taxation than the UK.

I am not an economist but it seems to me that in the hands of private shareholders our utilities and infrastructure (rail, water...) were not maintained, whilst in the early years of privatisation the country had more money and could have invested.

As well as clean and affordable, it also needs to be reliable. I’d never rely on a train or bus to get to the airport or to an interview in this country!

The transport in Luxembourg is out of this world. Completely free of charge and works like clockwork.
I know it's in no way comparable to the UK - Luxembourg is tiny! - but it was fantastic to experience public transport done so well.

But we didn't "have more money" in the early years of privatisation. We were still running deficits, so the proceeds was spent on normal spending, meaning we didn't have to borrow as much.

My family live on the continent and it costs me 3 euros to travel 75km from the city to the village where my aunt lives. The equivalent journey in the UK is anywhere from £49 to £96 depending on whether I travel in peak hours. The train is new, clean, there is excellent wifi and it doesn't stop running if it rains, snows or if there is a single loose autumnal leaf within 2km of the track.
I am not sure how we got to the place we are now in the UK or whether it is possible to change that. I literally can't afford to take a train in this day and age when the equivalent car journey costs me quarter of the price. And then we talk about net zero.. it's laughable.

Agree. Luckily i WFH and only commute very occassionally otherwise it would be painful.

Stayed with family in europe with 2 dc, 3 of us traveled to a neighbouring country to explore there. 12hr round trip costs us all… drum roll…around £80! And that is without any discounts etc, i booked us all full price tickets.

I agree with the idea of an overhaul - more East-West trains, please - but having lived in both Germany and the NL, I can assure you that delays/cancellations are just as prolific there. I don't know where this myth of German efficiency comes from!!

Why should tax payers subsidise your journey though? I find trains pretty good on the whole and only rush hour trains are expensive. There are a few franchises that are not great but I’ve found clean trains, mostly on time and not unreasonably priced. We cannot keep asking the government for more money!

I’d say the train I’m on now is the equivalent for Devon to London.

Slightly longer journey time, but it only cost £21! You used to be able to get south west railway tickets for that much from Exeter to Waterloo, but no longer!

Trouble is that many UK trains/lines are close to capacity anyway, so there's no point reducing prices to encourage more people to use them.

You make it sound like a well functioning public transport system wouldn’t be better for everyone?

Cheaper fares = more money for other things = happier population

A larger network = less cars on the roads = better for everyone

Eventually nationalising it means our public services stop getting ground into nothing in order to fill the pockets of shareholders

If you think trains are clean, on time and reasonably priced, you clearly don't use them here in "Nothern" land i.e. Northern Rail, Transpenine Express, etc., where the service is dire.

With trains the answer is a complete relaying of the tracks. I don’t know the logistics of it and I won’t pretend it would be easy, but the gist of it is that after WW2 much of Europe upgraded their networks to carry bigger trains. It’s why we’re stuck with the crappy little ones we have, while most countries in Europe can run the double decker trains.

Nor in the south west!

Unfortunately, taking some of the rail operators back into company ownership/control hasn't improved things in the North - Northern Rail and Transpennine Express were taken back into public/govt control a few years ago and things are worse now rather than better.

How would you do it though?

My proposal is much like what I’d want to see for water companies - fine them into bankruptcy and then purchase for £1, then use the fines to upgrade the systems.

But it costs billions to improve the infrastructure and takes years, even for relatively modest improvements. Whilst being improved, the rail services are seriously hindered and curtailed or even cancelled, which again can take months for simple junction improvements. Even re-opening an existing freight line to carry passenger trains again can take years and millions of pounds to upgrade the tracks, signalling, stations, etc. I think it's why HS2 was thought of as such a good idea as it was a brand new line so disruption to existing lines/trains would be minimised. Obviously HS2 had turned into a hugely expensive white elephant. We really don't want any repeats of that!

They will all be publicly owned by next year.

I know, which is why I’ve said multiple times that it wouldn’t be easy. But it needs to be done

I 100% agree with you. Our public transport is a shambles. I am also concerned at the number of trains derailing lately, everything is so poorly maintained. It's ridiculous that the get a train from the South West to London is more expensive than flying....not that I would fly but just to demonstrate the ludicrous cost. Plus the trains and rail network stink of sewage. Has anyone been to Bristol Temple Meads recently, the smell turns my stomach.

I don't know what "not unreasonably priced" means to you but I used to pay 6k for a season ticket in 2015.
Some things are essential infrastructure - health, transport, utilities. And it is perfectly reasonable for "the taxpayer" to subsidise it. And who is this mysterious "tax payer"? Newsflash, I am one. So is the OP, I am sure. Why can't we expect better and more affordable services for our own money? What should our tax money be used for if not improve the very services we use? Is financing wars a better use of "the tax payer's" money?
And, I tell you a secret - "the tax payer" already subsidises rail network.

Without getting any of the money that’s being sent to shareholders.