To think our public transport system needs a complete overhaul?

[creatorofthecoastguard]

I’m currently on holiday in southern Europe, and on an intercity train.

So far I’ve encountered trams that are a flat rate of €1.70 a journey, buses that are €1.50 a journey, trains that are actually affordable (£9 for a 45 minute journey across the border!), it’s all been amazing. Every train has been clean, spacious, yes busy in places but only when it’s to be expected (going to popular destinations). The intercity train I’m on now isn’t oversold, isn’t rammed full of people, there’s enough luggage space.

It’s really eye opening to how poor our public transport actually is. Expensive, poorly maintained, and poor conditions.

AIBU to think it needs an overhaul, and soon? I know it wouldn’t be cheap, and that a lot of our issues stem from post-WW2 when we didn’t upgrade our risks compared to most of Europe, but it needs doing!

@likelysuspect Train cancellations are the norm in Italy.

We have poor services in some areas and most people know Bradford is poor. Doesn’t the mayor keep banging on about it? It’s a shame no one thought about this and went headlong into HS2. Ultimately that’s robbed many lines of investment but the north collectivity thought it was great and fully suooorted it. No one talked about what might actually be more important in the north. The whole saga has been astounding!

Dunno, but by that logic why should taxpayers subsidise roads and airports either? 🤷‍♀️

Do you drive a car?

If so, taxpayers are subsidising you. The externalised costs of road transport are quite considerable.

Besides, every person on a train is an entire car off of the roads. That makes life better for motorists too.

Why would you go up the east coast which already has a fast electric line, when the capacity issues are between London, Birmingham and Manchester?

Yes, and mid distance trains in France are often as expensive as their British equivalents.

Europe's trains were always bigger than ours. Even before they had the benefit of being bombed to smithereens by the Americans and getting to start from a blank canvas. Ripping up and starting again in the UK would be insanely costly.

Hah! Nottingham has great city-owned buses, a too-small-to-be-effective tram "network" but wretched slow diesel trains to London and really poor connections and frequencies to Birmingham and anywhere in the north. The East Midlands region has consistently had the lowest public investment in transport in England. HS2 was supposed to solve most of that, as well as electrification of the rail line to London. Both scrapped by successive governments.

No, car driving is essential for a lot of people with disabilities. With the way people behave, it's not safe/secure for them to use bus/train. In other countries, people seem to behave better on them (maybe not everywhere, but in those places, they'd have to drive too).

I appreciate I’m lucky that im Manchester and can also zip to london in 2.5 hours easily. But it was also a conscious choice to live where I do and we pay in house prices. Problem is that in reality people would generally rather drive in most places so public transport isn’t viable.
make it free then see.. I still remember the Manchester commonwealth games where literally for that month everyone used it as free

Pardon?

A return trip to Manchester can cost upwards of £250+

You are very badly informed. Who is getting a "longer and less convenient" journey because of HS2?

Direct HS2 services were planned from London to Birmingham, Carlisle, Chesterfield, Crewe, Darlington, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Liverpool, Macclesfield, Manchester, Newcastle, Oxenholme, Lancaster, Leeds, Preston, Runcorn, Sheffield, Stafford, Stoke-on-Trent, Warrington Wigan, and York. So who is losing their direct London trains? Who is going to need to change?

The West Coast Main Line is full. It's the busiest mixed-traffic railway in Europe. Avanti already runs eleven coach Pendolinos and there's no scope on the existing infrastructure to lengthen them further. By building a new line, we can run up to 18 trains per hour, at up to 16 coaches long each. And you won't be delayed by a late-running freight train, because they'll be on the old route. Meanwhile there will be extra capacity on the old route into Euston, Man Picc and Birmingham New Street which means more scope to run local trains. The East Coast Mainline doesn't have much spare capacity either, and the Midland Main Line is not far behind it.

Unless we increase capacity, overcrowding will continue, and there will be surge pricing with it.

@BlueFahrenheit agree. Going to london for a 9am mtg is eye watering. Mid day is ok!

I remember people whinging about Crossrail, when that was late and over budget. Saying that it would be a white elephant.

They shut up very quickly when it opened and revolutionised east-west transport across London.

@BlueFahrenheit Yes my dd has to take rush hour trains and cannot get cheaper deals as she has to travel for work and sometimes the work is cancelled. However we went from London to Edinburgh recently for £60 return. If wholly depends on whether you roll up in the day for a peak time train or go at another time. If it’s nothing to do with work and costs are not reclaimable, go at another time.

People with disabilities are twice as likely not to hold a driving licence as people without. Take the poster on this thread who suffers from seizures for example. Public transport investment would make a big difference to many lives.

The Anytime fares on that route must be some of the worst in the country. This is why we need extra capacity - basic supply and demand economics.

We need one flat rate - a cheaper one. It's absurd that flight tickets to other countries are cheaper.

People need to be able to move across the country.

@DdraigGoch What we need is not to al use rhe trains at the same time. Shift working patterns. Evaluate the need to travel. Yes, let’s decimate the countryside instead because we are incapable of change. You really won’t afford the fares on HS2. Welcome to more destruction if Burnham reinstates if on more borrowed money! It’s madness and we do need to think if travel is vital at peak times. But we don’t.

Move working patterns to when exactly? The WCML is busy all week. They also need to maintain it, so regardless of how willing you think people will be to go nocturnal, it still needs closing overnight and to run as a two-track railway on Sundays.

HS2 fares will be cheaper than the current fares. It's basic supply and demand - once you remove the constraint on supply, prices will balance out properly.

The East Coast line needs more capacity to run local services.

Nottingham has suffered from being bypassed by the east coast mainline in the 19th century.

The tram network might have its faults, but at least it exists due to the determination of the city authorities. Other cities complaining about a lack of light rail could copy the Nottingham method to get one.

City-owned buses also look great if you don’t have them.

We’d have a much better system now if Dr Beeching hadn’t closed many railways. Those smaller lines and stations would have made perfect tram systems.

@PersephoneParlormaid Beeching wrote the report in 1963. The Labour government of Wilson from 1964 carried out the cuts! Remember the railways were government owned. Some lines were clearly superfluous and had few passengers. No point in having a tram with no one using it. 53,000,000 people were wanting cars and motorways. We now have a bigger population and people travel a great deal more.

The old line where I was born has been rebuilt. No trains yet due to union arguments. Track laid over 3 years ago. We are a useless country with big projects.

I was planning to travel to Taunton today to watch some cricket. I decided not to go due to the cost of the train ticket Absolutely ridiculous!

Poor transport infrastructure hinders economic growth