To think our public transport system needs a complete overhaul?

[creatorofthecoastguard]

I’m currently on holiday in southern Europe, and on an intercity train.

So far I’ve encountered trams that are a flat rate of €1.70 a journey, buses that are €1.50 a journey, trains that are actually affordable (£9 for a 45 minute journey across the border!), it’s all been amazing. Every train has been clean, spacious, yes busy in places but only when it’s to be expected (going to popular destinations). The intercity train I’m on now isn’t oversold, isn’t rammed full of people, there’s enough luggage space.

It’s really eye opening to how poor our public transport actually is. Expensive, poorly maintained, and poor conditions.

AIBU to think it needs an overhaul, and soon? I know it wouldn’t be cheap, and that a lot of our issues stem from post-WW2 when we didn’t upgrade our risks compared to most of Europe, but it needs doing!

Most cars aren't carrying four people. I believe that 1.5 is the average.

But even for one person, it can be cheaper to drive than take the train.

Meanwhile, for two of us to visit our daughter, we can

a) fly, £90 return including transfers, a bit quicker than the train even with waiting around at airports. This is for underseat luggage only.
b) drive, about £120 return. A tedious 7 hrs or so.
c) take the train, an average of 7 hrs each way door to door, but a staggering £250 return fare for two, after the railcard discount.

Train should be the cheapest, and it should be affordable, but it's neither. If the price were comparable to the other modes of transport it would be our preferred option.

it honestly scares me that these people have actual degrees in urban planning or whatever.

My friend's city is replacing their park and ride with a giant data centre, while talking about introducing a clean air charge for commuters to meet their green targets - i.e. all the people THEY have forced into driving who were previously happily getting the bus!

The council increase the cost of parking then wonder why so many people avoid the city centre and shop in outlets. Then shops shut down due to lack of footfall. This results in a gap in their budget due to reduced business rates...so they increase parking again to cover it 🙈

next to a smelly/farty/creepy guy eating egg sandwiches, and a toilet that doesn't work/is permanently logged due to someone taking drugs/hiding from the conductor in it.

At least in your car you are sitting comfortably, can control the smell, temperature, noise, whether you have any passengers, can usually take an alternate route if needed, can get on/off the road if you need the loo...

People need to pay more tax to fund travel & the NHS. They won’t! Xo

It would be great if privatisation worked as it should. So as a consumer I can decide to take the 7:01 with company x or the 7:03 with company y and eventually company X realises it needs to pull its socks up because their competitor is winning.

The tendering every 5-10 years doesn't work does it?

But often still faster, even with jams- eg to get to my parents takes 1:45 to drive, 3:30 public transport door to door ( 2 trains, 1 bus). This is along the south coast urban strip. The longest it’s ever taken me to drive is 3 hrs and that’s through summer traffic in Chichester and when the A31 was closed due to the fire so I had to drive through the forest. So even sitting in abnormally terrible traffic is quicker than PT running to time.

Re the cost, I already own the car. Unless public transport nationwide became as comprehensive as London I’d likely always have one, so the car is a sunk cost. My cost decision re drive or take the train for an individual journey is down to ticket vs fuel and parking plus convenience, and that’s currently hard to justify on most journeys unless you know where you’re going weeks in advance and can book the really cheap advance fares.

I want to be clear I’m not anti public transport as a concept. I use it where it’s convenient- if I’m going to London on my own I always get the train, for example. I just think it’s difficult to see where we would get the funds to upgrade the UK public transport system to a state which could significantly reduce car ownership (ie people think “I don’t need a car at all”), or fares to a level which would persuade people who already own cars to use them significantly less.

We could transfer funds from the road budget - expanding roads doesn’t ease congestion (as is often promised) as due to induced demand it just leads to more people travelling.

Nottingham used a workplace parking levy to fund their trams - it was massively unpopular with opposition from businesses (who later changed their minds because the trams work).

It is just a question of choice - there are lots of politicians etc calling for various road expansion schemes across the country. Sadly, they are unlikely to deliver what is hoped & some are problematic (eg smart motorways). That money would be better spent on rail & other public transport.

I also think that a better way to look at it on a broader base than individual choice. Of course people want to drive - it’s the easy choice - but we can’t all drive as there isn’t enough space. As soon as there is congestion or other problems then traffic / transport needs to be managed. People will switch modes if another becomes more convenient. Certainly, where I live there are some people very vocal on social media re their right to drive - but even they tend to complain about schoolchildren being driven to school because the roads are too busy.

People will switch modes if another becomes more convenient.

I got a free bus pass last year and due to this I have swapped car for bus for a lot of journeys within my city. I don't have to find parking (which is becoming extortionate in some areas), I don't have to figure out my route through the ever-more-complex road changes and roadworks, I can just sit and relax and read mumsnet. I am near a bus stop though, with buses in several directions.

I've also used it once or twice outside the city, but for most journeys the car is much faster and wins out.