AIBU to think migrant sex crime data should be published? And to wonder why Labour are blocking the release of that data?

[Fabiansrule]

Labour Blocks Release of Migrant Crime Data

'Victims of serious crimes and their families have joined forces to demand that the Labour government publish detailed data on offences committed by foreign nationals, accusing ministers of withholding information that is “clearly and legitimately in the public interest”.

Among the signatories are victims of high-profile sexual offences and families of murder victims. One signatory is a 14-year-old victim of a sexual assault in Epping allegedly committed by an illegal immigrant, in the same Essex town where asylum seekers were housed at the controversial Bell Hotel.
Fiona Goddard, a survivor of rape-gang grooming who has campaigned publicly about her experiences, has also signed the letter.

Eight relatives of Rhiannon Whyte, a hotel worker murdered by a Sudanese national, are also among those backing the demand.'

https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news-corner/labour-blocks-release-of-migrant-crime-data/

That’s sharing data by reference without citation.
You seem awfully angry to jump to saying I’m lying when I was actually being generous enough to acknowledge you had shared ( bad) data by passing reference to some forms of it,

Again, you are trying to misrepresent my comments. First you tried to claim is was about people’s race. Now you’re trying to claim it’s about “where they were born”. I have said neither thing. I have been clear it is about the psychological effect of being exposed to environments where there is more violence which we know for a fact makes someone more likely to be violent themselves. This has been proved by decades of data. And it is not “racist” to say so. So you can take your slurs and crawl back into whichever hole you came from with your disgusting attempts to shut down rational discussion of objective facts by insulting people.

I know.
But take no notice.
The slinging round of the racist token is being increasingly thrown round by everyone who doesn’t understand the argument.
As you say science and facts aren’t racist.
They have nothing and I mean nothing to counter argue with any logic.

The article is from 2025

They won’t because the research shows that victims of violence are more likely to become repeat victims of violence. The research doesn’t show the kind of causal link they are implying. There was probably a bit of a mad google search followed by a decision to blather in the hopes they could divert the attention from the racist stereotyping of any non British nationality of man in the UK being “far more likely” to be a sex offender.

I haven’t posted any data. You claimed I had posted data and charts. I did not refer to any specific data about the crimes rates in any way other than telling you that you should look up the data on the national websites of the Governments who published it. You seemed to have confused me with other posters who posted charts, which isn’t surprising given you have posted nonsensical comments to me over and over again accusing me of saying other things I haven’t said, so clearly aren’t actually reading what posters are actually writing, just having your little rants throwing slurs at people randomly accusing them of “racism” for talking about objective, scientific, statistical facts.

You seem to be some sort of keyboard warrior incapable of rational discussion who has repeatedly claimed that discussion of facts is “racist” and you have repeatedly broken the Talk Guidelines so one can only hope Mumsnet takes appropriate action to have you removed so that no other posters are subjected to further unwarranted and ridiculous personal attacks from you in future.

Yet more nonsense. I think having read many hundreds of psychological studies I don’t need to do a “mad google search”, because unlike you I actually know what I’m talking about.

Perhaps you should do a “mad google search” and inform yourself before embarrassing yourself further?

I think if anyone is doing any blathering it’s clearly you.

I clearly defined race and racial discrimination for you upthread, it includes national origin.

I gave examples of many problematic statements you made regarding national origin/nationality that were racist. These were opinions, not facts.

I have never said data is racist, but that the data is being misrepresented in such as way as to imply racist conclusions, many of which you have unthinkingly lapped up and seem to enjoy repeating. Any challenge to the lack of proper data analysis is reacted to angrily by you and you reach for that report button. You don’t want ti discuss data or statistical analysis. Your mind is set.

There is no sense denying it. Your posts are all there for anyone to read.

exposed to environments where there is more violence which we know for a fact makes someone more likely to be violent. No, that’s not a fact either.

Personally I’d rather know how many serving police officers have previous convictions or who are suspects in current investigations or who have otherwise failed vetting but still have a job. Just how many bad apples are there?

Part of the issue is that most British men aren't interested in having sex with twelve year olds. It's only really genuine paedophiles that are, and even they know it's wrong. However, it's legal to marry a nine year old in some middle eastern countries.

This means that many of these young male immigrants are a much greater risk to young girls because they by default regard them in the way a young British male might regard an attractive 21yo. The documented cases speak for themselves. Two sisters (10yo and 11yo) were gang raped.

Another guy grabbed a 13yo and called his friend to come and join in. He filmed the ordeal and was seen to be laughing. She was pleading that they not rape her. His excuse was that she had led him on. This speaks to the fact that he didn't see her age as an issue as any British man would know that having sex with a minor is illegal even if they 'consent' to it.

I’ve made no comments about anybody’s country of origin. I have been writing about culture, exposure to violence and social norms where violence is normalise and the proven psychological impact of that which increases the propensity for violence.

You have made false accusations of racism, falsely claimed that I posted charts and data when I had posted nothing of that kind, falsely claimed I was stereotyping people of particular nationalities, falsely claimed that I was being racist and making comments about people from specific ethnic backgrounds, none of which are the case.

Your have called me a racist repeatedly when nothing I have posted is remotely racist, you have repeatedly lied and tried to claim I’ve said things I haven’t said, and your comments are completely unacceptable and disgusting and break the Talk Guidelines so, as I said, if Mumsnet actually enforces the Talk Guidelines they will all be deleted and given you’ve done it so many times despite being corrected and given the opportunity to apologise and cease this but have continued regardless, one would hope they will ban you from posting entirely to protect other posters from such unacceptable personal attacks in future.

I don't really give a fuck if the Muslim community are offended tbh. Do most feminists care if the average man is offended by sexual assault statistics?

Channel 4's survey found that over half of UK born Muslims believe homosexuality should be illegal. We're always told that 'if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem.' That if innocent men dont like being tarred wirh the same brush as violent men then they need to stand up to the wronguns in their midst.

If this isn't universally applied then feminists should pipe down and be prepared for innocent men to tell them to STFU.

@LifetimesAgo

“I’ve made no comments about anybody’s country of origin”
You posted comments regarding countries of origin:

“men raised in violent, misogynistic countries”

”If we change the cultural norms of our society e.g. by importing many high risk individuals from countries….. from cultures where violence and rape of women and children is normalised and seldom punished will obviously make it far less safe for women to go about their daily lives.”

”The men who are UK citizens raised here will have a far, far lower offending rate than men raised in violent, misogynistic countries

“falsely claimed that I posted charts and data..”
I never said you posted charts and data. What I actually said “I’ve been trying to tell you, as have others, that the charts and data you are sharing are not real statistical analysis.”
You replied “I haven’t shared any charts or data. I told you to go and look up the official data published on the websites of the German, Swedish and Danish governments.”
I replied “That’s sharing data by reference without citation.”

“falsely claimed I was stereotyping people of particular nationalities”

You did indeed stereotype people of non British nationalities as a monolith:

“young men from these specific backgrounds obviously pose and even higher risk than those who have been raised in our own [British] society,”

“these particular young men have come from misogynistic [nonBritish] cultures where rape and violence is far more common and frequently normalised or not even considered to be illegal, so quite obviously on average they will pose a higher individual risk than men of the same age who have been raised in the UK”

“lived in barbaric [nonBritish] societies”

“if you take large numbers of young men from such cultures/ backgrounds and suddenly put them in the middle of a civilised [British] society”

“The issue isn’t about the proportion of rapes committed by people of each nationality as that would be meaningless unless you assess this data against the proportion of the population with that nationality. I.e. what matters is the relative risk, the likelihood of offending per person of that nationality, to reflect the risk that a specific individual is likely to pose and expose that these risks are far, far higher for people of some nationalities than others..”

falsely claimed that I was being racist and making comments about people from specific ethnic backgrounds,

While I did say you were being racist, you were the one that assumed it was about ethnicity. I clarified for you that the basis for my saying your comments were racist were due to national origin/nationality not ethnicity. That was when I posted the definition of racism. Your accusation I claimed you were making comments about people from specific ethnic backgrounds is false.

I think your hate speech is more of a talk guidelines violation than my pointing out hate speech. You really need to reflect on the impacts of what you are posting.

I never said you posted any data. I said you were sharing data which you have been albeit without any sort of citations or links. I haven’t confused you with anyone. You seem to be confused over what I have or have not said as well as confused about what you have or have not said. You seem to be experiencing a form of amnesia.

To be clear, your opinions as to what raw, unanalysed, unverified data might mean are not themselves objective, scientific facts but rather speculation that has a clear racist bias.

I think you have talked far more personal attacks on me than I on you. After all, I have been mostly attacking your opinions as racist and the fragility of the conclusions you have drawn from the data you have referenced, interpreted and shared, even if the data was originally posted by another poster.

Your have called me a racist repeatedly when nothing I have posted is remotely racist

It’s not just me btw. At some point you need to reconsider and think, if it’s not just Nulla saying my posts are problematic, then maybe I am coming across as having racist opinions.

Yes, some countries have barbaric and misogynistic cultures. Do you deny this well-evidenced fact?

The environment that people are raised in has an extremely significant impact on their behaviour and propensity to violence. Do you deny this well-evidenced fact?

If not, you presumably accept the fact that people from certain countries which happen to have violent cultures are far more likely to be violent as a result of being raised in such environments.

This is not “prejudice” or “racism”. Nobody cares what colour their skin is or which country they come from. The issue that has been raised is that because they have been raised in violent cultures where women are frequently raped and cannot safely go outside alone for fear of being gang raped, children are abused and this is not illegal (with children under 10 being “married” to middle aged men so that they can rape them repeatedly, often in exchange for money), women and children can legally be beaten or raped by their husbands or other male relatives, people have seen appalling violence because of living in warzones of as a result of the cultures they have been raised in, they therefore pose a far higher risk of exhibiting violent behaviour themselves. This is a statistically proven fact, through decades of psychological research.

It would be exactly the same if that was happening in the UK or another European country: if people there were being exposed to such violence and “values” then they would pose a much higher risk when moving to a different and more peaceful society where such behaviour is not considered to be acceptable.

The fact that these increased risk factors happen to arise because of the environments in the countries that they have come from is not the reason that there is a problem: the fact that there IS an increased risk is the problem, which is because of their social conditioning and experiences, regardless of where that happened or why or what colour their skin happens to be, so your ludicrous accusations of racism are patent nonsense.

The issue is the risk, which is proven by all of the data gathered through decades of studies of psychology and the impact of such experiences on subsequent behaviour, alongside the fact (which you admit) that young men are the highest offending group demographically anyway. Therefore, admitting large numbers of young men (with their higher offending profile - not ageist or sexist to admit that evidenced fact, as you did, is it?) AND with a background of violent culture and experiences (which we also know results in a higher offending profile - not “racist” to admit that evidenced fact, either, is it?) means, obviously, that offending rates in our population for violent crimes will rise disproportionately per capita.

These are simply facts. Facts evidenced by science and large quantities of data.

Your disgusting attempts to portray people as racist for discussing scientific facts are reprehensible and you should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself.

You’re lying again. You specifically said “data and charts you’ve been sharing” when I’d done no such thing. Now you’re trying to backtrack and justify yourself. You’ve tried to misrepresent UK law (either you don’t understand the Equality Act or you’ve deliberately tried to misrepresent it), you’ve made false claims that I’ve made comments about people’s race, then you’ve made false claims that discussing data split by different characteristics like nationality is “stereotyping” or “racist” when by this logic your own comments about young men being the highest offending group would be ageist and sexist, you have contradicted yourself multiple times, you’ve accused people of saying things they haven’t, and you’ve repeatedly thrown around slurs calling people “racists” for discussing science and data and evidenced facts and talking about how experiences impact people’s behaviour and psychology and raise of lower likelihood of various behaviours. This is scientific fact. Maybe google the copious evidence about nature/ nurture, to put it in layman’s terms for those who are clearly very hard of thinking, and decades of unequivocal evidence that “nurture” i.e. environment has an enormous impact on behaviour. You clearly know absolutely nothing about human psychology or behaviour and think that any discussion of cultural or environmental factors and their influence on it is “racist”. You’d better campaign then for psychology to be outlawed and shut down every psychology department in every university around the world because apparently they’re all racists for daring to observe the fact that culture and environment impacts behaviour.

Or you could just apologise for behaving like a total idiot.

that’s one screen shot from twitter from some bloke with an agenda. hardly conclusive proof of anything.