AIBU to think if we need to politely ask men not to rape women (or men), then we don't want such people in the UK? PART 2

[CoventryCity]

'Don't rape, sexually assault or make kissing noises' at people, asylum seekers warned in guidance about living in UK

UK arrivals have been told to treat women equally, not sexually assault partners or have sex with children in a new Home Office pamphlet. As well as the guidebook, a series of posters have also been designed by the government.'

https://news.sky.com/story/asylum-seekers-warned-not-to-make-kissing-sounds-at-people-in-new-guidance-about-living-in-uk-13574744

Previous thread here:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5568695-aibu-to-think-if-we-need-to-politely-ask-men-not-to-rape-women-or-men-then-we-dont-want-such-people-in-the-uk?page=40&reply=154338993&utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

I am sorry to hear about your horrific experience at the hands of men.

If you're denying that men from certain cultures are just as much of a risk to women and girls as others, you are wrong.

As I wrote on the previous thread -

All of our behaviours are guided by a set of social norms about morality that forms a basic and important part of our culture.

Morality refers to a system of beliefs about what is right or good, compared to what is wrong or bad. There is huge cultural variation in morality. Not all cultures are equal, not all are desirable.

As CS Lewis stressed, for human society to flourish, people should understand that in fact, morality Is Objective. A universal moral law exists - For eg. whole cultures that pretend children and women can be raped, can't be accepted as just another culture. it's wrong, they are wrong and they shouldn't be allowed into our culture to destroy our way of life.

*Please some posters stop twittering on but what about our British raping nigels, don't you CARE about that, it's fcking wearing (and embarrassing for you).

We have to move away from defaulting to "well, this law exists. I guess we're stuck with this forever now".

When circumstances change and it becomes clear that laws, legislation or treaties are no longer fit for purpose they must change. That should ideally happen at international level and you'd hope that pretty much all of Europe can accept that the current situation is fucking horror show. Regardless, this is not working for our country any longer and it has to change.

They and the UAE have actually warned us about it. They can't believe how utterly stupid the west is being in accepting the worst of their societies without question. Not only that but housing them, paying them and giving them free medical care. At the expense of our own population.

The original refugee convention was done in the wave of European displacement

Yep. Totally different times.

VAWG happens in the UK, the rates in other parts of the world are astronomical. We don't need those men here

I also agree with pp that we can’t just be stuck with a system because they were laws made for a different time.

Women don’t have to be the collateral damage to keep those laws.

I write this in the full knowledge that it won’t change any minds on this thread. However…
I worked with this cohort of young males for many years, teaching English. We often did have problems with their behaviour and attitudes towards female students. I agree that their cultures have some attitudes to women that are offensive. However in most cases they were very young and this was all that they had known. They were not immoral or evil as a group. Many will over time adjust their attitudes and behaviours towards the norms of where they now live. Some won’t of course and I agree that the numbers and issue of integration are problematic. But demonising a whole group in this way is wrong.

But it's being done deliberately. There is no intention of stopping or of putting our own population first. Our council has bought up dozens of houses in the area to house them. Meanwhile, there's a veteran living rough in some woodland because he can't get anywhere to live.

This is never going to stop. This is the UK going forward. We're fkd, Europe is fkd. I want to go and live in the Carpathian mountains or something. Too old to leave the country. Constant worry about the young adult dcs who can't just up and leave either.

Nobody is strong enough to stand up to the forces that are doing this. The west is weak and accustomed to peacetime living. Doesn't value freedom. Only those who know how valuable freedom is, know what it means to lose it. We're fkd.

And increasing the pressure on 51% of the population to the point where they can't go out freely isn't the answer either. We were born here, we can't escape in most instances.

Perhaps we should do as they do and either stay at home or only go out with our owners a male chaperone. Cover up. Remain out of sight.

All our hard fought for freedoms thrown away like trash.

Expecting women and children's bodies to be used to "adjust behaviours over time" is immoral. We have absolutely no need of these men. Nor do we need to spend our money on them while some of them learn not to rape.

I've also been involved in ESOL/TEFL. It doesn't mean anything because what we get to see is what they want us to see in the classroom. There are some very good charmers in those groups. What I'm getting a bit pissed off about is women telling other women what they should be thinking and doing when our safety is at stake. It's fine to genuinely care about immigration in all its forms. It's another to tell women they are racist and bigots. At least your post was more polite than the previous attempt.

It’s very hard - as you say, in some cases they know no better and we should as decent human beings be open to the possibility of growth and change.

However just because we shouldn’t demonise a whole group it doesn’t follow morally that we’re obliged as women to take the risk of cultural change to our disadvantage and increased risk of violence by opening our borders.

Totally agree. Women and girls of the UK are not buffers for sexual predators from other countries.

It does seem that way. Why are the European powers (apart from Poland), doing it deliberately do you think?

I know there was the unenthusiastic whimpering years ago about needing to increase the youth due to Europe's ageing population. But that doesn't hold any more. It's beyond that now. So why are they ruining Europe?

You're right, this hasn't changed my mind. It isn't about intentionally demonising entire groups of people, its about recognising a threat first and foremost. Secondary to the elevated levels of danger are issues of integration, cultural change and the question of whether we should be spending billions of pounds annually to house and feed these men at a time when we can't afford adequate defence spending and both taxation and debt levels are at all time highs. We cannot go on doing this for a variety of reasons.

Perhaps a star on their sleave, tattoo numbers on their skin?

Ah, so we are Nazis?

Exactly, to both posts. The pp can’t ask this of women and girls.

😂

The previous poster’s suggestion did sound familiar.
Maybe they should pause and see what/who they sound like.

So predictable.

@Pairymoppins

We don’t have to “demonise” these men as individuals. We can simply say that they are a high risk demographic in terms of violence towards women and girls generally and, given that they also have little education or skills, require more investment than we can currently give as a country in order to get to a place of integration with them all. It’s unfair to pick and choose without reliable information and therefore any settlement can only be temporary at best - we will try to send them back to where they came from (as the Germans are doing with Afghan refugees quite successfully) so far as possible and provide only temporary resettlement status so that they can go back if their country becomes safe. If, in the meantime, motivated refugees (assisted by refugee charities) have learned English, passed a cultural test and acquired sufficient skills to qualify for a visa, they can apply to stay in the normal way. For those who say that these men are likely to be an asset, temporary refuge requires them to prove it

Pretty sure that if the majority of men coming in illegally were Israeli or even just Jewish most the 'but white men are as bad' posters would be very keen to talk about nationality or ethnicity. They would supporting closed borders and deportations too.

Oh what very obvious hypocrisy we are witnessing.