Father doesn’t want our son’s ashes split, I do

[SecurityLight]

Split from son’s father nearly 10 years ago - he was abusive in all sorts of ways.
Our 18yo son died two weeks ago and we are not agreed on what to do with his ashes.
DS lived with me and his younger siblings until 16, when he had to move out due to behavioural reasons (very complicated related to safety of all the children and DS later told me I had done the right thing and he was glad I did). He lived with his father for a while and then went into care. Both his father and I had close contact with him throughout - his father did step up and helped DS in many ways in his last 2 years. Sadly he has not stopped being abusive towards me and up until my son’s death I didn’t have direct contact with the father as I had been advised by police to not to so.

Now we are in contact and arranging DS funeral. His father wants his ashes to remain intact, to be buried, because father wants to be buried with him in due course.

I want DS ashes to be split so that father can do as he wishes with half and I can bring my son home, as he always wanted and we were working towards, and scatter him here (father and I live 50 miles apart)

I also would like to be able to visit his remains easily, and for his father to be able to do the same.

Am I being unreasonable in wanting to split his earthly remains? It’s not him - he’s gone, I know that, I’ve seen him - but what remains of his body has meaning to us both.

@SecurityLight I’m so sorry you’re having to deal with this on top of your grief.

Hopefully, you’ll both come to a mutual agreement. As you’ve been told, your ex will be holding the ashes on ‘trust’ and has an obligation to seeks family wishes. If mediation doesn’t work and you don’t agree then High Court is an option and an injunction would stop your son’s ashes being buried without your consent.

I really hope it doesn’t come to that.

I do think this often comes from religion. I mean catholic doctrine prefers burial but if cremated the ashes should be kept together and buried (never scattered). Not saying anyone involved is catholic but people absorb bits of doctrine from people around them.

I don’t think this is generally the case with Catholics, though, regardless of the doctrinal position. Cremation is a comparatively new norm in Ireland, but growing rapidly, even though there are only 7 crematoria in the whole country, and four of them are in Dublin. My parents, uncles and aunts, and their circles (in their 70s and 80s) are extremely devout Catholics, daily mass goers etc, and are all planning to be cremated, and several are planning to split their ashes (but between different family graves, not scattering).

Not all Catholics are Irish. Not everyone in Ireland is a Catholic.

Never mind.

We said no to splitting my dad's ashes when his sister asked for half, her reasoning was that we weren't 'proper' family.

She went to the funeral directors and told them we'd given her permission to take the ashes, luckily they rang us to check. Not the last thing in a long line of shite she did after he died, mad cow

So sorry for your loss.

Have you looked at the idea of a memorial bench or similar, somewhere meaningful to your son and close to your home? For all they signify, the ashes aren't really "him" anymore. Where he is, is in your memories. You can try to create a space for that without needing to have this fight with your ex.

I think he is going to dictate what is done with your darling boys' ashes. I'm so so sorry. Maybe have a word with the crematorium or Funeral Director? Don't let him dictate to you, its not fair

It’s not him - he’s gone, I know that, I’ve seen him - but what remains of his body has meaning to us both

What you said here in your very first post really touched me op. I'm so sorry for your loss.

You're right that it's not him, but you can know that and still have emotional feelings about his final remains.

You sound so measured and calm and considerate of both viewpoints. I'm sorry your ex can't be the same. I really hope you can find a compromise solution and that you can have part of him at least at home with you. It sounds like coming home was important to him and you were both trying to make that happen.

I'll be thinking of you and your family.

I’m sorry to say it but I am not aware of any legal preceded that says they are held ‘on trust’. The person who has the legal right to the ashes can collect them and dispose of them - a burial park, churchyard or cemetery will ask for the Certificate of Cremation to show ‘ownership’ of the ashes but won’t ask ‘is everyone in agreement’ before allowing them to be interred.

A High Court action would cost thousands, and OP has said that she doesn’t want to go down that route anyway.

I wonder if you could consider a bench, as suggested above, or some sort of memorial that you could visit; I know it won’t be where your son is but it would give you a focus to go and talk to him, think about him and remember him. If you have a ‘green’ or natural burial park near you this might be something they could help with.

I wasn’t asked to show ownership of dh Ashes before I scattered /buried them at the crem or under a tree or at sea @MerelyPlaying