Father doesn’t want our son’s ashes split, I do

[SecurityLight]

Split from son’s father nearly 10 years ago - he was abusive in all sorts of ways.
Our 18yo son died two weeks ago and we are not agreed on what to do with his ashes.
DS lived with me and his younger siblings until 16, when he had to move out due to behavioural reasons (very complicated related to safety of all the children and DS later told me I had done the right thing and he was glad I did). He lived with his father for a while and then went into care. Both his father and I had close contact with him throughout - his father did step up and helped DS in many ways in his last 2 years. Sadly he has not stopped being abusive towards me and up until my son’s death I didn’t have direct contact with the father as I had been advised by police to not to so.

Now we are in contact and arranging DS funeral. His father wants his ashes to remain intact, to be buried, because father wants to be buried with him in due course.

I want DS ashes to be split so that father can do as he wishes with half and I can bring my son home, as he always wanted and we were working towards, and scatter him here (father and I live 50 miles apart)

I also would like to be able to visit his remains easily, and for his father to be able to do the same.

Am I being unreasonable in wanting to split his earthly remains? It’s not him - he’s gone, I know that, I’ve seen him - but what remains of his body has meaning to us both.

I would want remains to stay intact and be either scattered or buried. You and ex could choose a mutually convenient place.

None of this will make any difference to your son who is now at peace, it's all about you and your ex. It seems wrong to be at loggerheads over something like this; whatever your differences, you both loved your son.

That’s a terrible suggestion!

I’m not sure being (Irish) Catholic is as definitively anti-scatter and anti-split as you think these days. When we were burying an Irish relative over a decade ago it was decided in the wider family to split the ashes into three to reflect different aspects of his life: one third was interred in the family grave and two thirds scattered in places that meant a lot to him. The Irish undertaker gave us specific instructions on how to scatter properly.

I’m so sorry for your loss, OP - this is a question no parent should ever have to face.

splitting makes sense

I actually split my dh into 5

crem
scattered at sea
scattered under his uncles tree
blown up in fireworks on his birthday
at home in a little urn

my mum is in 3

myself
brother
My dad /husband

Deepest sympathies op - I'm so sorry about your lovely son.

A compromise could be keeping the ashes together, but burying them close to you? Then you can visit, but ex will get to keep them intact.

I'm so sorry for your loss.
From a church perspective (and I don't know if it is true for secular churchyards, but assume it would be) we can only bury whole sets of ashes. We have to take the original white cremation form when ashes are buried for the legal records. Therefore they can't be buried in more than one churchyard.

What a dreadful situation for both of you. I can completely understand not wanting to split the ashes. Ive not thought about this before but reading your thread makes me feel visceral about splitting the ashes, I couldnt do it, it feels really wrong. But there isnt actually a right or wrong as Ive realised what do you do when you have 4 children and 1 parents ashes to divide if you're not burying them.

I hope the both of you find a way forward.

What a vile and horrific thing to suggest. This is a grieving father no matter what he did to someone else.

Where did you get the information for your last paragraph from?

He wants the ashes whole so they can be buried where he is likely to be buried himself, a perfectly reasonable intent.

I don’t think it’s reasonable at all, when you’re divorced from the boy’s mother and weren’t even in his life for long periods of time. The information in the last para are from OP’s post: he wants the ashes buried in their entirety where he will be buried. Not in furtherance of the principle of not splitting ashes, and he wants them all for himself in his death, meaning OP can’t have them now or ever.

It's a really really hard one. But I do think they should be split. Your ex doesn't get to dictate what happens to his remains. Especially that he wants to be buried with your son. So you can't visit your son without also visiting your abusive ex. That's incredibly unfair.

He can bury half and be buried with them and you can do what you want with your half.

I can imagine my abusive ex doing exactly the same thing. Essentially he's saying he wants all the sons ashes entirely to himself. Which just isn't reasonable.

Well that isnt unreasonable. It isnt top trumps about 'the best parent', both are grieving in what must be presumed to be a horrific and tragic situation that neither were expecting. He clearly cared deeply about his son and tried to do the best for him at what seemed to have been difficult times. Same as OP did when he was in her care. Neither is right or wrong, its inappropriate to consider his request as unreasonable and hers as resonable. Many, including myself, would not consider it reasonable to split ashes. Thats just as unprincipled or principled as wanting them in one piece becaause you want to be buried with your son. Why wouldnt you and why is that not considered 'a principle'?

Making out one parent is more worthy than another in such a horrible situation is a dreadful thing to do. Hopefully they can come to some sort of compromise.

Could you agree to a delay. Say you bring son home for a year or two then you let his father bury them. Or you agree you keep them for now but when the time comes he is buried with his dad. Obviously there needs to be trust for this to work.

It is raw now but time will pass, it will never stop hurting but it will change.

I'm sorry for you loss and hope you can resolve this

I think it's next of kin. Who would that be? What's on his medical records perhaps.

My nieces divided my late brother's ashes which was odd to me. However they had rings made. Would that be an option?

Perhaps you missed my earlier post. I too don't think it's reasonable to split ashes, but I also don't think it's reasonable - when the parents have nothing to do with each other, indeed have only come together over the funeral - for one parent to have everything and the other have none, whichever parent that is. It's not a question of top trumps or worthiness, they were both the child's parent. It's about two parents having entirely separate (from each other, as parents) relationships with their deceased son and no ongoing relationship with each other. They were able to maintain this in life because they both had a piece of him (so to speak) - they both had periods of time with him in their life. The same is going to have to be in death, otherwise it's like a double death for one parent. That's more unreasonable than splitting ashes imo, even though the idea makes me (personally) balk.

This hadn’t even occurred to me, and his father is older than me so very likely to die before I do. I don’t want to visit his grave when I want to visit my son.

oh this is so horrific.

btw - to anyone thinking we’re ’at loggerheads’ or whatever - we are not, I am working incredibly hard and letting huge amounts of crap slide in order to maintain a peaceful discussion and peaceful agreement about the funeral etc. I do not want my son’s remembrance to be a place of conflict at all.

And I’d never even vaguely consider lying to his father about anything to do with his remains.

I am now quite worried though since his father has insisted on paying for the whole funeral, and has been very very strident about that, and I guess now that he has done this because he knows that will give him ultimate control over this, and now I feel sick because I know I’d never do something he didn’t want and that I will seek to find a solution that is agreeable to us both, but I do not trust that he will do the same.

I feel the same and I can’t give a logical reason, only an emotional one. My dad’s ashes were divided up but when it comes to your child, I just don’t know, it would be very, very hard. But I completely understand OP’s need to have some herself.

A very difficult situation OP and I don’t have an answer that can help. 💐

@SecurityLight If he refuses and it all gets too much could you at least have a small amount of ashes to put into a piece of specialised memento jewellery you could wear on you to keep him close?

I’m so sorry for your loss, and for this added upset.

if I were you, I’d speak with the funeral director. Although you aren’t paying, any decent funeral director would listen to you and may have some suggestions about how to come to an agreement with your ex. At the very least, it might buy you some time if the FD knows that the two NOK aren’t in agreement.

I hope you work out a compromise you are both at peace with.

You don’t need to decide now one way or the other. Whoever filled out the paperwork with the funeral director would initially be asked what they’d like to do. If that’s not you, then speak to the funeral director and ask that they keep your son’s ashes whilst a decision is being made.

Ultimately, if you can’t decide then it should be taken to the High Court for a resolution. They will be sympathetic.

I’m sorry for your loss, it must be heartbreaking.

I'm so sorry for your loss.
I've never revisited a grave or kept ashes, I keep a photo and an item that belonged to the person. For me they are just as much in my home as they are anywhere else. While I hope you get your wish, if not it doesn't mean he is any less yours 💐

I'm so sorry you are having to deal with the death of your beloved son. The death of a child is the most difficult thing in the world to deal with. In your situation I'd not do anything immediately. Keep his ashes in a box with you and possibly agree to burying them in a garden of remembrance. You can have a little stone with your son's name, date of birth and death. You and your exh couyboth go to visit your son's resting place that way. His siblings might want to go too. When your exh passes he could leave instructions his ashes are buried there too or in a nearby spot.

I don't think I'd like the idea of sharing him out either, but it's been too weeks, you don't need to do anything yet.

I would suggest you speak to the funeral director ASAP, as, if he arranged and paid for the funeral, he will be the person able to collect your son’s ashes. They have probably seen this issue arise before.

And I’m so sorry for the loss of your boy 💐.

I know that it's highly illogical, but I would be hugely uncomfortable about splitting a loved one's ashes.

But now that I've read that he's insisted on paying for the funeral, I'm concerned that he's taken all the control from you.

It's a horrible situation, and in these early days making decisions like this is really hard. My DH's ashes are still in my wardrobe, because in the early days my daughters and I struggled with it different preferences, and I felt that it wasn't the right time to make the decision.

Maybe if he takes control of the collection of the ashes, you could ask for more time until you're both in a better place?

@SecurityLight
My deepest condolences for your loss
In this truly trying time
But reading your message i see it as one last attempt by your ex to disrupt
And even your DS knew how rotten he really was so
Why would he want to be buried next to him?
So that even in death he deliberately makes it difficult for you to be near/with your son
As you'd like to be if he's lying there too?
Keep the ashes intact in your posession
And carefully think things through till after the shock is less raw
Also
Could you speak to a solicitor about this as
I still maintain that he's coming from a angle of spite