Father doesn’t want our son’s ashes split, I do

[SecurityLight]

Split from son’s father nearly 10 years ago - he was abusive in all sorts of ways.
Our 18yo son died two weeks ago and we are not agreed on what to do with his ashes.
DS lived with me and his younger siblings until 16, when he had to move out due to behavioural reasons (very complicated related to safety of all the children and DS later told me I had done the right thing and he was glad I did). He lived with his father for a while and then went into care. Both his father and I had close contact with him throughout - his father did step up and helped DS in many ways in his last 2 years. Sadly he has not stopped being abusive towards me and up until my son’s death I didn’t have direct contact with the father as I had been advised by police to not to so.

Now we are in contact and arranging DS funeral. His father wants his ashes to remain intact, to be buried, because father wants to be buried with him in due course.

I want DS ashes to be split so that father can do as he wishes with half and I can bring my son home, as he always wanted and we were working towards, and scatter him here (father and I live 50 miles apart)

I also would like to be able to visit his remains easily, and for his father to be able to do the same.

Am I being unreasonable in wanting to split his earthly remains? It’s not him - he’s gone, I know that, I’ve seen him - but what remains of his body has meaning to us both.

It absoluetly is anti scatter. It's against catholic church teaching. The funeral director might have told you 10 yrs ago it was okay but his/her job is to fulfill the family's wishes. Cremains.are to be buried together. I think recently the vaticsn said a small amount could be buried.in a place of significance but they are meant to be buried together and not left in an urn in a house etc. I didnt knlw about how strict it was until a paremt died. I wanted to.keep.the urn.but the priest who is a family friend gently told me the teacghing of the church.

Something a friend of mine did that might be of help to you is to use a very small amount of the ashes and turn it into a piece of jewellery (there are funeral directors who know the companies that make this jewellery) that you could have with you all the time. Then the remaining ashes would be perhaps buried. That way it would be less of a split perhaps? Just an idea. I do hope you get this worked out, such a difficult time for you.

I agree with others saying it's to control you.

It seems to be all his way. Why should ex's wishes come above OP's when they cannot have both? How will OP be able to visit her son when his remains are solely in her abusive ex's possession? What's to stop him from withholding access on a whim just because he can?

And what about when she herself comes to pass? Does OP have to submit to being interred with her ex just to be with her son if the ex passes before her? Or if OP passes first, is she destined to be forever without her son?

Splitting the ashes is fairest. Ex can take his portion to the grave, and OP doesn't have to rely on her ex for access.

Sorry for your loss.

Could the compromise be that you take the ashes home for (say) a year and then you will bury the ashes near you, keeping them in tact?

Then you can have both your wishes to bring him home and then visit where his ashes are. And your ex can have his wish to be buried with your son with the ashes in tact?

The only wish that doesn't get granted then is that it is easy for your ex to visit. But you expressed that wish, not him, so it may not be so important to him?

You dont have to understand it. Its not necessarily logical. As I said upthread I had never even needed to think about this and Ive now realised I wouldnt want to split the ashes, it feels wrong and horrible. But thats just me. Its my feeling, it doesnt necessarily need a rationale to it.

you can make ashes into jewellery/other things. I don’t expect it takes a large amount of ashes to do. Is this a compromise you’d be happy with? Would dad be happy with having most of his ashes and yo keeping a small amount needed for this?

I'm so sorry for your loss. My youngest child died two years ago and he was cremated. I kept a little of his ashes to scatter at his favourite places and his remaining ashes are at the cemetery where I can visit. I understand some would find splitting them quite upsetting but I did what I felt was right.
As a previous poster has already mentioned, the person who has signed the paperwork for the cremation has the final say but still speak to the funeral director about your wishes. I hope you and your ex can come to an agreement.

My brother arranged my father's funeral. His ashes were released to me but there had been email correspondences.

As the.mother surely you have some right, or, and I know this sounds awful but I can't think of a better word,ownership.

Sorry, I hope you understand my meaning.

It is also worth considering what you want to happen to your remains.

So sorry for your loss.
The remembrance garden with option for DS's father to be buried close by but not with, sounds like a good compromise.

I would be saying fuck the teachings of the church! I know plenty of Catholics who keep urns in the house.

Thats pretty much what I was thinking. He wants them kept intact, you should choose where they go.

So sorry for your loss OP. If the compromise is that the ashes stay together, I think ex H should also compromise and have them scattered at a mutually agreed beauty spot.

My mum died many years ago and her ashes are interred in an Irish graveyard with her parents and other family members. I recently asked my dad what he wanted done with his (he’s now mid 80s and not great at making decisions). It’s over 30 years since she died and dad never particularly liked his in laws. He’s never lived in Ireland. I’ve suggested I could split them and put some with mum and the rest have scattered in Yorkshire. I really don’t mind…not sure I’ll get an answer out of him.

I'm not criticising, I've just found it really surprising, it wouldn't even occur to me

I think you should wait a while before making any decision. You are still in the very early stages of shock and grief. It's an important decision and you don't want to do anything you may regret later.

I'm another one who can't understand why splitting the ashes is such a no for pp. It just makes sense, it's nothing like sawing a body in half. I'm pretty sure that not all of him is in the urn and there may be bits of someone else's ashes in there.

I'm sorry @SecurityLight if I offended and upset you. I didn't mean to.

Fwiw we had a similar situation with my brother's ashes.
I wish you peace.

Thanks 🙏

So - if splitting the ashes is so bad, why would it be ok to take some for jewellery? By the same logic against splitting them, this would surely be like cutting off his finger or something?

I know that none of this is logical. I feel quite strongly about bringing him home, and for some reason a tiny amount that would be taken for jewellery doesn’t feel like enough. Oh god.

This ☝️

We did this.
We took a hand full of ashes and sent it to a company called "Ashes into Glass" and had jewellery made for my MIL and DH when her son (DH's brother) died. 😔
Then a few years later a beautiful small glass orb paperweight made of my mum as a keepsake.
Worth the money and it helped my DH.

Also any ashes sent over that they didn't use, were returned to us, that we could then use to scatter.

I'm so sorry for your loss OP 🫂
@SecurityLight

I think this is a genuinely lovely compromise. I'm very sorry for your loss.

I am sorry for your loss. I suggest they stay intact at yours for a few months whilst you make a decision between you.
Perhaps you could look at a natural burial ground so they are buried not scattered and you would have somewhere beautiful to visit with the option of either of you being buried there in the future.

I agree. And good on you for pushing back on this!

In an ideal world you and the father would amicably find a solution that works for both of you. Dividing the ashes, a specific grave, scattering the ashes. but you have time. You could decide tomorrow, in a month, a year… but this is not the world we live in.
So take the time you need. Not the time other people want you to need…

I am very sorry for your loss.
Don‘t let anyone pressure you into something you are not 100% comfortable with.

edit: who will receive his ashes?

His father will receive them and from speaking to FD I think it is now too late to change this without legal involvement (which I absolutely do not want) because the papers have been signed. I strongly believe that his father knew this and this is why he has pushed for being the one to arrange the funeral and sign the papers himself. He was very insistent on being the one to sign the papers and I stupidly didn’t think it mattered.

But there is apparently legal precedent that whoever holds the ashes is legally required to consult and take into account close family wishes so I very much hope this means he couldn’t just waltz off with them and do what he likes. I am still hoping that we can find an amicable compromise.

And that'd their choice. No need to 'fuck the teachings of the church'. I was replying that it is against Catholic teaching and I didnt know myself until it affecfed my family. I was one of those catholics keeping the urn in my house. I didnt know and because my paremts were practicing catholics unlike myself I buried their cremains as thats what they would hqve wanted if they knew the church teaching. I would have preffered to keep them.

i am so sorry for your loss 😞