AIBU to feel uneasy about mothers leaving successful careers?

[Toodledootwo]

All my friends are quitting their successful career jobs after having children. They all seem to be throwing their hands in the air saying what’s the point. Is there a revolt happening against women working? It seems we were encouraged to get to work and be independent….but when becoming a mother….still be that mother, still be that provider till burn out?

I knew I couldnt do both. So I chose career and no kids.

Come off it. You used a comment you knew was going to upset and inflame people and created distance by oh-so-innocently putting it in the mouth of someone else to buttress your argument.

It has to work both ways.
It’s wrong to belittle SAHP but it’s also wrong to suggest working parents pretty much neglect their children.

But some of us HAVE to do both. That’s the point a lot of people are missing. People talk about “having it all” as if it was some pose which women adopt for fashion reasons. For some of us its a necessity.

And yes it can be absolutely brutal, although overall I don’t regret it: I am grateful for my financial freedom, and my daughter is doing well.

But the “having it all” phrase really irritates me because it suggests it’s something people do because they have seen it in Cosmopolitan.

I have to “have it all”. I have no choice in the matter.

My daughter’s generation refer to “doing it all”. I was brought up with “having it all”. I think the younger women have it right.

The comment you replied to was about not having children, so in that regard you did have a choice.

Its a bloody awful trope aimed at women the sneaky " how dare they think they can have it all" " how dare they work and have independence" -misogynistic tripe
The irony
Many men do bloody have it all
A family life with very little parenting effort
Being a father does not hold back their careers

I can honestly say I’ve never seen anything like the sort be said or posted, are you living in a parallel universe!?
How dare they work? How dare they think they can have it all? You’re being ridiculous, no one says that.
I have only ever heard ‘can’t have it all’ said by women who often say they were sold a lie about having it all then they were younger and they don’t agree now they are living the reality of it.
You seem to have quite a chip on your shoulder, no one thinks “how dare you work”, no one cares about the working schedule and finances of another family! If X, Y, or Z works for you then crack on, no one else is really fused.

Im referring to the years old trope since the 1970s that the PP referred to , it was mentioned up thread that "women cant have it all" which was a very common phrase
Magazines and articles were aimed at women discussing them WOH
It was very very common " Can women really have it all"
Rife in womens magazines ironically
You must have either been not born or living under a rock!
So dont call me ridiculous just because you werent aware of it , thats part of the issue, younger women have zero idea of the struggle that came before them
Women were sacked for marrying let alone having children

Husband & l both worked part time when son was young. Increased hours as he got older.

I'm confused, you dont HAVE to have kids?

What a great post.

So glad you are enjoying your role as a mother and a wife. Really happy life.

Your husband sounds like a good man.

Are you saying that you should only have kids if you don’t have a career?

I loathe the “having it all” trope. Its yet another stick to beat women with but with a nasty edge of “Who do you think you are?”. “Who did you think you were that you could work and support your kids? Duh… didn’t you know it was a trap?”

Its dressed up in “concern” (as is most judgement). Concern for women “doing too much” but actually its a kind of reprimand for women who have got ahead of their skis, a way of trolling women who have to work by making it look like they have been duped by capitalism.

What is particularly pernicious is that it is positioned as a “lifestyle choice”: as if people want to go out to work and wear a sharp suit and thump the boardroom table for emphasis like they have seen too much Ally McBeal, but really they are lost little girls who are desperate to get back home.

In actual fact very few working mums think like this. The working mums I know (and I include myself) have to work to support themselves and their children. Its not something we do to play act. Its not a choice. Its survival.

People can disapprove all they want. Unless the state undertakes to support women indefinitely during the early years of child-rearing or you can guarantee a generation of highly solvent and principled men to go around for each woman, there are going to be career mums. You sneering at us for “having it all” doesn’t make a blind bit of difference.

Of course not. I'm replying to a post that said you HAVE to have both.

@Greenmouldycheese - you’re just wrong. Most working parents i know and have known prioritise spending time with the DCs in the morning and the evening, not just at weekends. I’m a lawyer and I’ve been a WOHM since my DDs were small. I did breakfast and the school run with them every day, dinner and the evening routine every day, school events etc.

The nuclear family is a very recent creation. Mothers have worked outside the home for centuries - millennia in fact - and children have been raised in extended families often with grandparents leading on day time care. That is the same in many cultures still.

SAHMs and WOHMs bring different but equally important things to the table. Being an SAHM doesn’t suit every mother and having an SAHP doesn’t suit every family. Everyone and every set-up is different. What’s important is what works for the family unit.

Totally agree @Thepeopleversuswork
Its usually aimed at women who are competent and successful and goes along with the " working to buy handbags" nonsense.

To the thread in general
Even if it is women themselves feeling they have been sold a lie, why does this never ever turn around to mens lack of parenting/ support?
Is it fear?
Why are we ignoring that this is due is men refusing to take half the load , men walking away from their children, paltry CM and lack parenting

Ive been accused of having a chip on my shoulder yet I had a supportive DH who pulled his weight, he adores our DC and genuinely wanted to parent them
I BF 3 DC was very hands on also
Can anyone tell me why the answer is give up work, not men parenting/ doing domestic tasks fairly ?

A good man? The poster is saying her DH couldn’t bond with their children until they were toddlers or older? Why couldn’t he bond from day one?

Can anyone tell me why the answer is give up work, not men parenting/ doing domestic tasks fairly ?
But you’re making things up about other families.
Why are you intent on claiming women reduce their hours or take a break from the workplace because men don’t step up, don’t do domestic tasks and don’t parent? You’re making that up.
Some men have working wives and they don’t do enough parenting, some men have wives that stay at home and the men don’t do enough parenting.
Who are you actually talking about?
I know plenty of women who have a great parenting dynamic with their partner, their partner is just as involved in the domestic stuff but they ultimately wanted to stay at home with their children in the early years.
Claiming women only come out of work to be with their children due to rubbish men is narrow minded and reductive.

I didn't say it was. I simply stated that different people will value these things differently and that's their choice - it's not for other people to judge them for it.

@MelogranoIve worked with women where dad does most of the parenting and one who left her DH and child and moved 100 miles away with another man. Some women are not maternal and don’t want to take the load. She came back to work 3 weeks after giving birth. Do we celebrate that or not? Or do we think everyone should have a choice?

Conversely whether anyone likes it or not, some dads are not that interested in dc. They work very long hours in some jobs and something has to give when mum is doing the same. Walking away from that, or even your own business, is not possible so parents take a pragmatic view and usually the higher earner keeps going with their work.

My DH, for example, had 100 employees, should he just take a back seat and leave them to it? Not bother to get work for them to do? Families have a mix of priorities and needs. Many dads are great but that doesn’t necessarily mean they must be an equal parent in terms of hours put in.

“Thepeopleversuswork · Today 07:05
Melograno · Yesterday 21:10
Its a bloody awful trope aimed at women the sneaky " how dare they think they can have it all" " how dare they work and have independence" -misogynistic tripe
The irony
Many men do bloody have it all
A family life with very little parenting effort
Being a father does not hold back their careers
Show quote history
I loathe the “having it all” trope. Its yet another stick to beat women with but with a nasty edge of “Who do you think you are?”. “Who did you think you were that you could work and support your kids? Duh… didn’t you know it was a trap?”
Its dressed up in “concern” (as is most judgement). Concern for women “doing too much” but actually its a kind of reprimand for women who have got ahead of their skis, a way of trolling women who have to work by making it look like they have been duped by capitalism.
What is particularly pernicious is that it is positioned as a “lifestyle choice”: as if people want to go out to work and wear a sharp suit and thump the boardroom table for emphasis like they have seen too much Ally McBeal, but really they are lost little girls who are desperate to get back home.
In actual fact very few working mums think like this. The working mums I know (and I include myself) have to work to support themselves and their children. Its not something we do to play act. Its not a choice. Its survival.
People can disapprove all they want. Unless the state undertakes to support women indefinitely during the early years of child-rearing or you can guarantee a generation of highly solvent and principled men to go around for each woman, there are going to be career mums. You sneering at us for “having it all” doesn’t make a blind bit of difference.”

@Thepeopleversuswork and @Melograno - completely agree, except that i would always choose to have a career. I was raised never to depend on anyone else for my income and that is important to me. I also value the professional satisfaction that comes with working.

As you say, no-one talks about fathers “having it all” because they work and have children. It’s utter bullshit as is the suggestion that a good mother “sacrifices” her career and “gives it all up” for the children. Somehow no-one talks about fathers sacrificing. The suggestion that sacrifice must be about ceasing to work outside the home and ceasing to bring in money is also truly sexist and pernicious. SAHMs bring great value to the family as do WOHMs but in a different way. Personally, I think there is great value in having and modelling financial independence, having and modelling career satisfaction and showing children that girls should have the same career opportunities as boys.

I have dear friends who are true homemakers and have been fabulous SAHMs. I have dear friends who have, like me, worked outside the home since our DCs were small. In the case of the latter, our DHs have pulled their weight in the family and our DCs have had active involvement from both parents. One is not better than the other; they are simply different.

What really worries me is all these people who are so determined to shrink girls’ and women’s horizons in this way and insist that the only decent mother is one who stays at home. It’s very worrying if a whole generation of young women start buying into tradwife BS.

Her husband sounds like an absolutely terrible father.

Why would your DH need to take a back seat when he became a parent? Many couples manage to develop their careers and grow businesses as well as be active and involved parents. There are multiple ways of making it work.
It really doesn’t have to be an either/or situation and the point people are making is that the automatic choice doesn’t have to be women giving up work. You’ve presented it like your DH didn’t have a choice.

Children need teaching manners, how to behave, how to interact appropriately with both children and adults. They need to learn self-care skills, how to express and manage emotions, how to live a healthy life, how to respect boundaries and limits, especially with screen time. How to assert themselves and resolve conflict healthily. How read, write and count.

You do understand WOHP do all that too. They don’t just stick their children in a holding cell for 18 years.