AIBU to feel uneasy about mothers leaving successful careers?

[Toodledootwo]

All my friends are quitting their successful career jobs after having children. They all seem to be throwing their hands in the air saying what’s the point. Is there a revolt happening against women working? It seems we were encouraged to get to work and be independent….but when becoming a mother….still be that mother, still be that provider till burn out?

nope you’re wrong there . In fact my dh is basically looking after my second child full time at the moment until we get childcare sorted . But no one is debating men “having it all”. I think you must be the one living in a dream world if you are not aware that statistically it’s almost always women’s careers who suffer when children arrive and that it’s almost always women who are the ones criticised for whatever they decide to do.

I don’t think it’s either or.

This is an excellent post.

There is so much rubbish information being presented in this thread. Mums today work more hours now more than ever. Yes, women have worked throughout history but never as much as they do now. In June 2021 75% of mums up from roughing 25% in the early 70s. So no, it’s not some new wild idea that people want to raise their own children.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/articles/familiesandthelabourmarketengland/2021

In the 70s and 80s it was not the norm for children to attend nurseries for long hours in the way they do now. We have a generation of children spending huge numbers of their most formidable years being raised in large groups by (usually poorly) paid employees. We don’t fully know what the effects of this might be because it is a relatively new phenomenon and also because it is poorly studied.

Many mums need to work long hours to prevent their children being raised in poverty. Many would choose differently if they had the choice. Pretending like it’s some great privilege for everyone to be out working full time because feminism is hugely hypocritical. Anyone who really believes in women’s rights would want all women to have the freedom to actually choose.

I was just trying to be fair to the men and make them feel included. Lol.

I think the point is was trying to make is women's value is always given in relation to someone else. The job they do seems to have to be laudable at a society level like doctor, dv worker, or it had to be "for thier children' it cant just be ordinary and they quite like the lifestyle, if they are sad about missing something it doesnt matter because the only children matter and it doesnt affect them.

When do women get to matter in thier own right.

But 100% agree tying self in knots about non existent harm is fruitless and financial wellbeing is important.

Not everyone views it as “suffering” because they have chosen to change their work once they have has children.
If you’re viewing working FT as a success and not working full time as suffering then you’re coming at it from a totally biased view.
Women are the only ones pregnant and the only ones giving birth, the vast majority of women chose to take maternity leave far beyond the minimum requirement of a few week, the idea that pregnancy and birth is irrelevant is farcical. Even if a woman returns full time to her role until retirement it will still have been impacted more than a fathers, that’s just biology.

It’s many women on this thread who are the one’s making criticism around it. Women need to stop turning things into a general ‘societal’ problem as though it’s far removed and consider where they are adding to it rather than a problem being pushed on them. I found it interesting you talk of criticism but felt the need to make a little comment to a woman who said she felt brave making the choice to step back from work in the face of judgment she was receiving from those around her, and were very quick to point out you didn’t think she was brave at all.

Thanks for the apology. With respect, though, the image you describe of parents choosing to work because they don’t care about their children is fictional.

There are a large number of parents like me who can’t afford not to work (I know almost no one who can afford not to work). There are many women who choose not to give up their careers because they love them and have worked hard to achieve them and face an invidious choice between losing a career they love versus losing precious time with their children. (And their husbands are never asked to make this sacrifice). There are also women who rightly want to maintain their financial independence as opposed to becoming dependent on their husband. My mum was miserable for most of her marriage because she had given up a job to have children. She was totally trapped.

If there are women who use childcare don’t give a shit about their children they are a tiny minority. If women appear to celebrate having wraparound childcare it’s because they are relieved that their children are being well cared for, not because they want to get away from them.

And comments along the lines of “why did you bother if you just wanted to farm them out to childcare” grossly and offensively oversimplify this painful dilemma which so many women face.

That only may mean the mortgage is repaid. The SAHP still doesn’t have an income. The minimum requirements for a mortgage just that - a mortgage protection.

We have - in addition to the mortgage protection - life insurances and loss of income protection plus we both work.

that means if DH or I drop dead today there is money coming which is designed for DD to ensue she can go to uni/start her life and before has all options available for her.

The surviving spouse has finds to take time off unpaid to grieve or come to terms either way a situation out of their control without worrying about a salary.

I don’t judge any woman who does this, indeed I took a massive step back, and cling to my career with my fingernails while pretty much single handedly bringing the kids up.

But I also see so many brilliant, competent women in my professional workplace who then get boxed and lesser men get promoted. Or worse, plenty of my medic/dentist friends are hardly working or not at all. It’s longevity and experience that women lose, and we become so vulnerable.

BUT I still maintain that being a mother is the most important job I’ll ever have.

Most of my social and professional circle are in 'high flying' roles and I don't know anyone who has completely given up work. I know people, men and women, who have gone part time or taken breaks for up to a year aside from mat leave, but everyone works.

Where I live maternity leave is much longer than a few weeks thank goodness. In a lot of countries men get equal leave to women after a child is born which is how it should be in my opinion . Maybe you think it’s farcical but I certainly don’t . I think men should be equal in their parenting duties and are well able. Giving birth doesn’t make you the innate better parent . And no I don’t think it’s brave at all to give up a career and become financially dependent on a man.

This is a really good point. Even a day or two a week keeps a foot in the door and makes it easier if the other parent loses their job

If you want to work you should. We are more than someone’s mummy or wife.

You’re missing the point, women can legally return to work after a few weeks. Women overwhelming choose to stay off for at least 9 months through choice, it’s not something forced on them or we would see much larger numbers returning after a few weeks. So the idea that this concept of their job ‘suffering’ by some force they can’t control isn’t really true.
Women as a whole choose to stay off for most of a year at least, because they want to.

I don’t agree that one baby requires 2 adults paid for a year to look after it. Couples have the choice to use shared leave if they want the father to have significantly more time off than paternity leave allows, it works for some and it doesn’t work for many others.

A woman can feel brave for making a choice that suits her family in the face of direct judgment from people around her, it’s her life and her feelings, you needing to tell her she’s not brave and “dependant on a man” while complaining about women facing criticism is hilarious actually. You are literally part of the problem.

I'm not assuming they are lying if they are a genuine poster. I think you'd have to be naive to think all posts on mn are genuine. It's well known that certain movements employ bots, influencers etc to infiltrate threads such as this to push an agenda such as the far right tradwife ideology, MRM or supression of women. It was the language I was alluding to, not the opinion. So in that regard I completely agree with @Toodledootwo that it feels there is something slightly dark going on. If you are happy being a SAHM good for you, that's your family's decision. I'm more concerned that women are being influenced into thinking they have to choose one or the other and that the default option for the man is he continues to work full-time, no impact, leaving the children to his wife to sort. THAT I do have an issue with.

I absolutely did not 'want it all'.
I quit when my first child was born, I worked a couple of evenings in a low paid job that I loved (adult social care) just to get out for a few hours a week. My husband took a lower paid role that meant he didn't have to travel. We kept to a tight budget while our kids were younger, we didn't go without but didn't have a huge amount of disposable income. It was well worth it for us. We never had to use childcare, we had so much family time, we parented together and were both very present throughout their childhoods. I always thought id go back to it when they got older but I never have and didn't miss one minute of it. We have incredibly close relationships with both of them and they are wonderful young people that we love spending time with and are so blessed that they still want to spend a lot of time with us.
We have never regretted our decisions and now we have a bit more freedom we are enjoying spending time together again.

I was made redundant after I had a baby and the amount of people who thought I would be dancing round the rooftops with joy because I didn’t have to go back to work was unbelievable. Having grown up in the 80s and 90s redundancy for me was living off loans and financial precariousness, not a wonderful opportunity. I tried lots of things and then was lucky enough to start a new career which has been very successful, but with AI and the global economy as it is currently, I can’t rely on it forever. I’m hoping we can get some money together so we can help dc with university before things potentially come crashing down. If I’m wrong, which would be marvellous, I can spend my early retirement on a cruise ship 😁

I don’t like the romanticisation of poverty in the past - yes people brought up 15 dc on one wage but it must’ve been brutal and relentless. And I’m not buying all these American homemakers on socials that homeschool a gaggle of kids and make everything from scratch - it’s pure bullshit and designed to make you feel bad so you buy things, and these women are working anyway 😁

Just women or does that apply to men also?

But this could apply to many fathers @TheBlueKoala
I would say mostly men who do this and very few women
Yet the women are bashed for it
Really you are adding a strawman argument
I dont see anyone on the thread who thinks children should be neglected and its unpleasant and weak of you to chuck it in as the default of working mothers when most are bending over backwards to bring up happy children

Given the examples you used in your previous post I’m assuming you are referring to me. It’s ironic that you find it so hard to believe that a mother could so enjoy parenting her own child that you think I must be a bot! If that doesn’t tell you how bizarre our societal expectations have become, I’m not sure what does.

I’m an older mum who worked my bum off for over a decade in a career which I ultimately found quite unfulfilling. I had a child and rearranged my life and I’m much happier than I ever was working 9-5. I’m very lucky that I have a supportive husband and we’ve had only one child by choice because this life is much easier with just the one. I’m an outlier in my social circle and nearly didn’t have the confidence to do what I’ve done but it’s been great. Not sure why that’s all so difficult to believe but hey ho.

My view in life is to never depend upon a man for anything.

I have kids and love them dearly and I am fully involved in their very busy lives however being a SAHM wasn’t for me. I’ve done both - senior job and SAHM.

Bored the shit out of me. I couldn’t only be defined by children and running a house - especially when they went to school.

I was happier when my Brian was engaged and showed my children (boys) what a successful independent women in a great relationship looks like.

There isn’t better or worse. You aren’t a better mother if you stay home and you aren’t a better mother if you work.

To the original point, it is a slippery slope if women don’t understand even in a marriage the financial vulnerability of not earning.

Its not lying about their experience its the fact they apply it to everone elses

Ages ago there was a very snotty SAHM on here who just didnt understand that everyone had different experiences
Children of WOHP had to be miserable because otherwise what was she sacrificing her career for ?

WOHP here
3 mat leaves close together
Hands on flexible working DH granted long term WFH before it became mainstream, No childcare, No afterschool club, home baked cakes 😁
Both enjoyed parenting and WOH
She insisted that WOHP had miserable DC !

I am a higher earner and am quite happy to continue work. The idea of being FT at home dealing with my kids does not appeal AT all. Love them but I find kids quite exhausting and whiny. Work is also stressful but at least my clients and colleagues don't whine at me and say please and thank you. I work (very slightly) PT so use my non-working day to do the school run, homework etc, and I also take extra time off in the school holidays to be with the kids. However my partner's salary is much lower than mine so it wouldn't make sense for me to stop working. We also have family support, work from home a lot, and have a very flexible and reasonably priced breakfast/after school club so it's not hugely difficult to deal with work and kids.

Maybe because they want to bring up their children? Not everyone wants to work while they have children at home.

Not judge?

Women may not be able to have it all, but they ought to be able to have a choice without being judged.

Choice is a luxury that was gained the hard way.

Don't spoil it with your judgment.