AIBU to think my sister overreacted to my 11 year old's attitude?

[samwiggle9]

I've just got off a holiday with my sister and her family... For context my son is 11 and he is currently going through an attitudey pedantic stage and I'm in no way saying he's a angel. But occasion he can be snappy and barky and a bit of a no it all...as the back story on our last day we were on the beach and he had a snorkel on and he jumped in the sea (I told him not to do it with the snorkle on but he did it anyway) anyway after he jumped in he panicked and couldn't breath properly. Obviously everything was fine but he was upset there were tears but I consoled him explained why it happened and he wasn't going to do it again.
When we were leaving her son laughed at him about it. My son said it wasn't funny..... now he did have attitude in his voice like I said he's no angel so I went round to tell him to calm down.. my sister stepped in front of me and screamed in my son's face that her son was just making a joke and he's not going to get far with an attitude like that... I took my son away from the situation and told him to calm down (I'm more of a explainer and reasoner when trying to teach him) as I was walking away I heard my sister telling her son to stay away from mine. I did say to her look he is still just 11 years old. Your being ridiculous and then she went in a mood and the kids say on there tablets for the rest of the day.... As I've got back off holiday I've been thinking about other moments on the holiday where they've full on over reacted about his attitude. Like I said he's no angel but her and her husband literally have created there own narrative... Like when we're waiting to get on the plane my son said I want the window seat... Her husband was muttering about being spoke to like a piece of shit and he'll fing sit where he sits, fin telling me where I'm sitting... Or when we were taking off my son and her husband were bickering over whether we were on the run way or the taxi way, and instead of her husband just explaining why he was wrong it turned into the it is, it isn't, it is, it isn't argument and then he was just like why isn't he listening to me... In hindsight I just think what's wrong with explaining?
Now I'm sat at home ive barely slept for 2 days because I feel like I've let my son down and should of stepped in more?
Personally for me I don't feel like you need to shout at a child for her them to understand the situation and why as a fully grown adult they can't control there anger and shout/moan and get attitudey while screaming at a child for having attitude? I know I'm not wrong here but I feel like I needed some validation that they took it too far.
Also I have had a word with my son that while he does need to work on his tone of voice and the way he's speaking and that wasn't ok it was also not ok for her to do that.

Honestly OP, there is little more annoying than a know it all kid and its a parents job to rein them in. There is no way your BiL should have been stuck in a repeated back and forth with your son when your son was wrong for example. You should have stepped in and said "No, BiL is right, DS, so please stop arguing now" adding your own explanation if you wanted DS to have one.
Your sister absolutely shouldn't have screamed in his face. But you can't control other people. You can only decide not to repeat the situation again. You can have some control over DS though and you need to teach him the behaviour to avoid so he doesn't become unlikeable.

Massive drip feed and sounds like horrendous behaviour all round.

But was the BiL actually right and the son wrong though? It sounds more likely the son was actually correct. That doesn't mean I wouldn't have stepped in. Because learning not to keep pointless arguments going is a skill in itself. But it's one that the adult BiL hadnt learnt himself so kind of ironic the eleven year old is the one blamed. They are the ones with the excuse of inexperince.

OP said "instead of BiL explaining why he was wrong..." so I assume the 'he' who was wrong was DS as you don't explain why you yourself are wrong.
Yes BiL should have the skills. But he's not OPs responsibility. She can only work on DS and maybe he won't end up another dogmatic know it all man like BiL.

Yes but you model the right behaviour by showing as well as telling. That involves not just telling small children to shut up. I completely get children can be annoying, especially other people's. But that doesn't mean they are out to get you/trying to be annoying. Ironically arguing with an 11 year old is a Sheldon Cooper trait far more than being an eleven year old is.

There are ways to stop your children badgering other adults that aren't as harsh as shut up. I'd have gone for "DS, John is actually right because...so please don't keep on arguing" or if DS was right then "Can you stop now please DS.
Have you seen the (whatever distraction).."

Don't really think anyone comes off well here, from what you say. Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but effing/shouting in someone's face isn't ok. And equally, your son shouldn't be behaving like this, but their responses aren't helpful.

Screaming in his face is not acceptable. He'll never forget that experience with his aunt. Your sister & her husband seem immature & unable to discipline their own kids.
I wouldnt want to go on holiday with them again. Too much like hard work.

Stop making excuses for him, he needs to ditch the attitude.

I cannot believe the votes on here. OP you are definitely not being unreasonable and neither is your son.

It is a favourite excuse of bullies or abusers that their victim had a funny tone of voice when saying something perfectly reasonable as justification to laugh, shout or swear at their victim. The can’t you take a joke is very frequently trotted out. Your sister’s family did all three between them to your son.

I don’t care how much “hard work” it is to not laugh at a child who has had a bad scare. It’s not at all ok for an adult then jump up when they’ve simply said it’s not funny to the laughing bully and scream in the child’s face while physically intimidating him. It’s definitely not ok to respond to ‘can I have a window seat’ to reply to the child with ‘I’m not going to be talked to like shit, I’ll sit wherever I fucking want to sit”. And it’s again not ok to nitpick the runway comment by no it’s the taxiway, and then sink to the yes it is, no it isn’t- that’s on the adult, it would have taken two seconds to explain the difference but it seems the adult enjoyed mocking his nephew and trying to start an argument.

I would not be going on holiday with them again. I wouldn’t be taking my son around them. They are awful people.

Your parenting is just fine. Your son might be a bit rude now and then but he is only 11 and it’s worlds better than how all three of them behaved.

I haven’t read all of the he said, she said… But you are both doing it differently, and that’s fine. My sister isn’t a big fan of DS because he is so unlike her DS (who loves when mine turns up!). My little guy is a livewire & responds better to explaining. Her DS is very compliant, and always takes their lead. I can see this, and would never comment on her parenting. But she’s happy to eye-roll at me & my DS. Just don’t go on holiday with them again. Children are exactly that, sometimes a pain in the arse, some adults just can’t compute…

Your sister and BIL don't sound very nice. Getting into an argument with a child about the runway is pathetic. Swearing on a plane with children is poor. Your sister not only allowing her child to laugh at yours but then shouting at yours when he says something about it is piss poor parenting on her part. I wouldn't holiday with them again. They seem to want to put all their problems onto your son when they're far from perfect.

Your sister absolutely shouldn't have screamed in his face. But you can't control other people. You can only decide not to repeat the situation again. You can have some control over DS though and you need to teach him the behaviour to avoid so he doesn't become unlikeable.

I can’t quite wrap my head around this, teach DS the placatory and submissive behaviours so as to not trigger being verbally abused by his aunt in future? Is that what you are calling ‘likeable’? I would not repeat the situation by keeping aunt far far away.

It sounds like you and your sister are bemoaning each other's parenting styles while allowing your own kids to get away with bad behaviour, to a degree.

That said, its normal to get on each other's nerves after spending more time than usual together - maybe include more time apart doing your own thing next time to reduce some of the friction.

Tbf though your 'explaining technique' doesn't seem to be working if you told your son not to jump in with the snorkel and he did it anyway and then came crying and you consoled him, that could be annoying to others. At 11 he is old enough to do as you say, explaining is one thing but if there are no consequences for ignoring you, he is less likely to listen.

The kids bickering is normal but it sounds like you and your sister are not much better 😬

It’s natural to comfort your son if he’s got panicked. I was in the sea last weekend and suddenly realised I had drifted further out than I thought. It’s a scary experience. His cousin was rude and awful to laugh at him.

Tbf though your 'explaining technique' doesn't seem to be working if you told your son not to jump in with the snorkel and he did it anyway…

It is only not working if OP had explained it 3 times at different intervals. That’s how many times it takes an adult to get something into their head. If you’ve only explained something once, the vast majority of adults and children have a high chance of forgetting it.

‘’I'm more of a explainer and reasoner when trying to teach him.’’

Another idiot who thinks gentle parenting is the best way forward!

The worst behaved children I've met (and there have been a few, I've worked with them for years) are from parents like OPs sister who shout and scream at children. Why is it so alien to some people to treat children with the same respect you'd treat an adult?

Talking to your children rather than shouting and screaming is not "gentle parenting".

Keep up.

Whilst it’s not an excuse, I suspect they’d been biting their tongue all holiday and finally got fed up. Probably not just at his stroppy response to the “joke” but at your son who didn’t listen to a word you said about not jumping in with his snorkel. It’s annoying seeing a child of that age constantly push the boundaries and the parent continue to “explain” rather than discipline.

I suspect they’d were tired, fed up and snapped. Not great of them. But equally maybe you need to reflect on your sons behaviours and your approach to it.

And this is why I would never go away with family. All kids are annoying. But you can only tell your own off. Hard pass.

Jesus 😅

I feel the need to go through it he walked up on the jumping thing with the snorkel on and I shouted up to him take the snorkel off if your going to jump in then he jumped in. He then panicked and was upset I asked him what was wrong give him a cuddle and then said this is why I told you to take it off before you jumped. ... I didn't go oh my little sugarplums please don't jump off with the snorkel on mummy doesn't like it. Oh no my little cherub your scared come here it's ok what a mean snorkel.
And no he did not get the window seat he got the aisle seat. Not sure how it reflects because I then said no because he didn't ask properly but the other two who also didn't say please got the seat but that's on them not me. Manners cost nothing in our house.
I did tell him to stop during the plane argument I didn't just sit there?
By explainer and reasoner I didn't mean my child has no consequences and I'm just sat there letting him do and say as he pleases. He gets punished I just take the time to turn it into a lesson rather then screaming at a child that this is what's happening and your going to put up and shut up.
I'm the adult I'm screaming and you are to not be annoyed or upset?

It's fine I took the parent advice on board, he asked to go out this afternoon on his bike... I said no. He asked why I then shouted at him because Im in charge and I control the house!! It's fine he took it like a champ and just went back to his room.

Good job the real story is he asked to go out. I said no. He asked why and I just told him I'm working I can be having him coming in and out. And then he went back to his room.

According to all the comments the first response is the correct one and what happened is idiotic parenting ?

Why?

When a child is hitting another child or throwing supermarket food on the floor then gently "explaining" why they shouldn't or calling "gentle hands Timmy" isn't appropriate and is poor parenting.

When a child is panicked and upset after they did something stupid then calmly explaining why it went wrong to them is fine. Yes, he disobeyed the OP by jumping in the water with a snorkel on. But he already faced the natural consequences of that. So combined with an explanation lesson learned
A child thinking a taxi-way is a runway or vice versa also isn't a child being "bad" in the same way hitting someone is bad. Explaining why it's a taxi-way/runway isnt weak parenting. It's normal human behaviour and also how conversations work.

I’m a dozen posts into reading this thread and no I’ve not read the rest because - OP you are argumentative and seeking validation, maybe think what behaviour you are modelling as maybe this is where your son has got his from!