AIBU to think my sister overreacted to my 11 year old's attitude?

[samwiggle9]

I've just got off a holiday with my sister and her family... For context my son is 11 and he is currently going through an attitudey pedantic stage and I'm in no way saying he's a angel. But occasion he can be snappy and barky and a bit of a no it all...as the back story on our last day we were on the beach and he had a snorkel on and he jumped in the sea (I told him not to do it with the snorkle on but he did it anyway) anyway after he jumped in he panicked and couldn't breath properly. Obviously everything was fine but he was upset there were tears but I consoled him explained why it happened and he wasn't going to do it again.
When we were leaving her son laughed at him about it. My son said it wasn't funny..... now he did have attitude in his voice like I said he's no angel so I went round to tell him to calm down.. my sister stepped in front of me and screamed in my son's face that her son was just making a joke and he's not going to get far with an attitude like that... I took my son away from the situation and told him to calm down (I'm more of a explainer and reasoner when trying to teach him) as I was walking away I heard my sister telling her son to stay away from mine. I did say to her look he is still just 11 years old. Your being ridiculous and then she went in a mood and the kids say on there tablets for the rest of the day.... As I've got back off holiday I've been thinking about other moments on the holiday where they've full on over reacted about his attitude. Like I said he's no angel but her and her husband literally have created there own narrative... Like when we're waiting to get on the plane my son said I want the window seat... Her husband was muttering about being spoke to like a piece of shit and he'll fing sit where he sits, fin telling me where I'm sitting... Or when we were taking off my son and her husband were bickering over whether we were on the run way or the taxi way, and instead of her husband just explaining why he was wrong it turned into the it is, it isn't, it is, it isn't argument and then he was just like why isn't he listening to me... In hindsight I just think what's wrong with explaining?
Now I'm sat at home ive barely slept for 2 days because I feel like I've let my son down and should of stepped in more?
Personally for me I don't feel like you need to shout at a child for her them to understand the situation and why as a fully grown adult they can't control there anger and shout/moan and get attitudey while screaming at a child for having attitude? I know I'm not wrong here but I feel like I needed some validation that they took it too far.
Also I have had a word with my son that while he does need to work on his tone of voice and the way he's speaking and that wasn't ok it was also not ok for her to do that.

My takeaway from this is, teach the kids to bloody swim.

I think you need to holiday separately as this doesn’t sound enjoyable for anyone. Your son sounds annoying but know an adult shouldn’t scream at a child. Was she really screaming though, or did she raise her voice more than you liked?

No one ever just raises their voice on Mumsnet, do they? It’s always “screaming” in someone’s face.

Both your child and his cousins sound exhausting to be around. Holiday separately in future.

You can explain to him that he should be respectful and not demand the window seat and not argue with adults. Explain to your child the basic principles so the stupid stuff doesn't happen rather than explain every occurrence separately. Doing what he is told is high on that list particularly when what he wants to do is dangerous (the snorkeling incident). But BIL shouldn't have engaged in a pointless argument with a child so that was partly his fault.

OP is your son the eldest of the children? Unfair expectations for him to be perfect from the extended family, if so

move on. back to school, back to work, don't go on holiday with your sister and her family again

This explaining every twist and turn and every thing that was said and done is quite difficult and happens my family and basically gets us nowhere.

As adult siblings we do bring our DC up differently and sometimes they rub each other up the wrong way.

If I see one of my nieces or nephews, DGC (of similar age as your DS @samwiggle9 ), speak to cousins and aunts and uncles with attitude I do speak to them about it. It just isn’t acceptable. And they know this! We have one 12 year old niece in particular, that can be a bit sneery to others and is a work in progress.

We should all treat each other with respect and speaking to people with attitude is not nice and will never go down well.

As for “screaming” in your DSs face, only you know to what extent your DSis spoke sternly to him or screamed at him. If your DSis screamed in his face, then you are wrong not to have spoken to your DSis about this.

Your DS speaking to people with attitude is indefensible, we all have DC, tweens and and teenagers going through different states of development but we don’t have to put up with this behaviour.

And adults screaming in DCs / adults faces is also not acceptable.

The sister and her husband seem to have forgotten that they are the adults; their behaviour seems as bad as that of the children, answering back, muttering, shouting etc. Sounds like an awful trip, one not to be repeated!

I don’t go for all this soft parenting crap. It creates kids who are pain in the arses.

@samwiggle9 your dsis family sound like the sort we actively avoid when on holiday.
The dh effing at your ds would be enough to stop me being in his company ever.
You will be judged by association op.

Being honest the OPs defensive detailed posts about every single thing the sisters family did does come across like she’s telling their mum why her sister is bad and she’s the good one. But she did this and she said that and look how AWFUL she is. I agree that this isn’t a great dynamic and the solution is just don’t holiday together anymore. I think there’s a lot of exaggerating going on and I think we’d get a totally different version of events (but likely just as exaggerated against the OP) from the sister.

I think when people explain away their child's attitude at great length, they have become accustomed to their shitty behaviour and no longer see the problem.

I agree with PP that your nephew laughed to get a reaction, so he's hardly a paragon of virtue either. I'm not sure whether your sister is just lairy and looking for a fight, or at the end of her tether with your son's attitude. Does she usually behave like that?

Right your son is an angel and theirs is awful. I note you don't give their kids ages but here's what i pick up:

Your son can't be told , you say you explain but clearly he argues black is white and is very draining

Your son talks disrespectfully to people

Your sisters kids can't swim so you felt you had to spend all day in the pool...instead of just watching from the side

You and your sister have different parenting styles

You don't like each others kids

You should holiday separately in future

You are very over protective if you haven't slept for 2 days because your sister shouted at you kid

Look don’t do whose got the worse kids thing.

your kid played up, they got annoyed, you are tolerant of it, separate holidays going forward, until your son starts to have a more reasonable way of behaving,

On a trip like that where there are more children than window seats I give children the choice - Window seat on leg out or leg back?

But that is just a tiny part of the trip. In these circumstances I would not have joint trips again

So much screaming!

anyway, this whole thread is why I no longer go on holiday with my sister.

different parenting styles equals unhappiness all round

I always think the phrase 'he's no angel' hides a lot of bad behaviour that a parent doesn't want to admit.

There is a big difference between lengthy explanation and reasoning and shouting in someone's face. Sometimes, you just need to say, "DS, enough now." Or "DS, do not speak back to an adult like that." There is no need to scream in anyone's face.

I think your sister and her family had had more than enough of your child thinking he knows everything and telling adults where he is sitting and I'm not surprised tensions frayed by the end of the week. You should remind your DS that saying, "I want the window seat" is rude. If he had said, "Please can I have the window seat" that would have been more polite and probably wouldn't have got anyone's back up.

Holidaying with other families, especially when they are in your extended family, is hard.
People have different parenting styles, the dynamics between adults and children change and everyone is trying to relax when it is not a relaxing situation.
From your description your son sounds like a bit of a PITA but that your sibling and their kids are no saints either. It’s not a competition. To make things work you need to let a lot of things go and compromise frequently.
Seems like neither you nor your sibling were prepared to do this.

Don’t holiday together again and let all this go. It’s the past and you can’t do anything about it.

I find that big performative explanations, in front of others, are never a good parenting strategy. I tell my kids to stop what they are doing and will speak to them about it privately at another point if needed.

Main takeaway from this is that none of you seem to like eachother and a holiday together was always going to be an awful idea.

All the children seem annoying. Like most people though you can tolerate your own.

Also did she really scream I’ve never seen an adult actually suddenly scream at someone unless it was a life in danger type of situation. Raised voice sure but screaming nah.

Your sister’s son and yours both sound painful, as do your dsis and her dh. Your ‘gentle parenting’ isn’t working. I witness a lot of the performative explanations from parents and it rarely works, ime. Your son arguing with his uncle would have made me tell him (ds) to just shut up. Sounds like a terrible holiday.

The reason I said he no angel is because if I hadn't of said that then I would of got the this person thinks there child is an angel and they dont parent when no child is ever a angel 100% of the time... they all have their moments. As a whole he is pretty good, he's mindful, please and thank yous, if I say no I mean no, no answering me back, sometimes he can have attitude with the whys and that's not fair.hes not walking around talking to everyone likes a piece of shit to do his bidding he just have his moments like most children do.
I can detail the whole holiday because I have a photographic memory and could tell you every single conversation we had, the direction we drove and every interaction the kids had that I witnessed. The kids all got on well majority of the holiday and in fact we had a conversation on how close they all were and how well they all got on.... the interaction I'm talking about happened in the last what 12 hours this wasn't continuous throughout the whole week. My point was more I could relay each and evert child encounter and your still going to blame mine because he had the attitude.
I did tell him about being rude about the seat and therefore he got the aisle seat... We do have boundaries funnily enough. I want doesn't get. The window seat conversion they were all excited saying what seat they wanted.
Hes not rude all day every day to anyone that speaks to him..he has the odd moment where is tone of voice is off.
I can also deal with him getting told off again no issue with that sometimes I don't think it's entirely necessary to shout over every single little thing but it's whatever its going to happen spending a solid week with someone.
However in this instance It was a literal scream in his face, not an exaggeration. It was stepping in front of getting his face and screaming in a almost hysterical manor.
My points about the swimming weret I parent better than here it was more to the person that said I should send me child to her for a week so he gets some parenting because of water safety yet one of her kids is 4 years old and is allowed to the pool on his own while not being able to swim.
My point with the shouting was it wasn't just aimed at mine all 4 of them got shouted at and she is the kind of parent that gets in your face and shouts and I'm the opposite.
All the kids were playing up at some point we were on holiday having later nights it was going to happen but I didn't get in any of there faces that again was the point. My son misbehaved a total of 5/6 times not multiple times a day and yet the amount of times I'm being.told that It was perfectly reasonable to scream in his face is bizarre to me. I think I'm going to try this going forward thanks for the parenting tip.

I don't sit there having a fully on lengthy explanation every time he does or doesn't want to do anything I do have other things to do it was more of a point I can simply have a conversation with him about it and that's usually the end of it.... I get that some one your kids are clearly just built up to do as they're told all the time and they're absolutely never cheeky and not need any parenting every now and again..Great job for you guys did you scream in there face to achieve that? Or did you nurture them?
Because my point of the whole thing was 95% my child behaves and I don't feel the need to scream at him but my sister can shout and bellow at her kids 5/6 times a day and still get told no but the 11 year old is at fault here.
Again this isn't a my kids better than hers it's more I'm being told my kids the monster and they'd had enough of him at this point but in reality she has three they're alot and mine made one badly related comment and it's clearly my parenting fail?

There's no competition on who parents better we have completely different dynamics and this was never a look at my child and look at hers it was in that moment do you think it's perfectly acceptable to scream in a child's face or for an adult to argue with him on a child's level? I've never got down and bickered with him over what's right and wrong I've told him simply with straight up facts and I've never needed to ... The conversation went like this ... were on the runway, it's a taxi way, no it's the runway, no it's the taxi way. For god's sake it's the run way I can see out the window someone gets this kid to listen to me.