AIBU to think some school policies are at least partially responsible for the rise in pupil unhappiness?

[Alittlebitofmin]

A friend’s kid described school like a prison. He is likely to be a school success story set to get really good grades, but sees school as something to mainly tolerate. AIBU to think the school system itself is at least a significant partial reason why teenagers report lower levels of happiness at schools in England? Schools seem increasingly punitive and restrictive, pressure seems high, some children are even made to feel guilty if they have a day off sick.

It’s not that I want a uniform it’s what happens if you don’t have one. You say have uniform is a power play and they should have a simple uniform - but it’s not that easy. It’s not a concern that Clair’s nails are distracting, they are dangerously long, she can’t do PE she can’t do technology for H&S reasons. What happens to Clair? Is she allowed to miss PE? Where does she go during tech? If Claire gets away with it what about Betty and Bob when they grow their nails.
So you establish you do need a rule, but how long, what colour etc - meaning it’s way, way easier to just say no nail varnish.
Am I worried about students in short skirts, absolutely. Young people do not have the bodily awareness to wear very short skirts appropriately. You solution is trousers for all - you’ve just made a rule. Julie can’t wear skirts, they make her sad, she’s not comfortable what do you do?

My reference to being beaten us was about the very strict school my children went to, that had a zero tolerance policy on bullying that was draconian but was safe for my children. I’m sorry that wasn’t the case for your children.

Things like this are simply a power play. If the purpose is to get young adults used to the work force then teachers can demonstrate by following the same uniform rules.....

Honestly, it's like a bunch of kids are posting. Wah wah wah why can you wear jewellery when I'm not allowed, it's not FAIR.

Yeah, I can set my own bedtime too.

Then you have a rule that says nails shouldn't be dangerously long, I.e. interfere with the ability to do X, Y or Z. The colour is irrelevant, so no rules about colour.

DD's school had a rule about no hair in the face, long hair needs to be tied back. Reasonable for safety. But the colour didn't matter, dreadlocks etc didn't matter. There is a rule easily justified by safety, and the freedom to choose all sorts of options within that.

I was at school with a girl who came in every day with nail polish. Every day she got sent to the office to remove it. What an utter waste of time for the staff. The colour of her nails made zero impact on her learning, or anyone else's. Spending 20 minutes out of class removing the colour did affect her learning, but that was her choice in the face of a ridiculous rule.

No, we are saying everyone should hold to the same standards.

Rules should be there to make a safe, calm learning environment.

Teachers have a dress code, uniform/jewellery rules for pupils should be made on the same basis as the dress code. For a safe, calm learning environment, not arbitrary compliance.

Parents want a uniform.

Uniforms are helpful because you can identify, at sight, that pupils belong to the school, so for safeguarding.

Yeah - 13 years of FREE education - whinge whinge whinge

Sure, but in the world of work if I forget my lanyard I just get a temporary pass or go home for it. There's no shaming or punishment. Plus there's a big difference between these skills at age 11 where they're likely to lag a bit with SEN anyway vs age 18/21+.

My secondary school experience was very much better in the 90s where detentions were for things like multiple late homeworks or bad behaviour, not for a forgotten pen or untucked shirt.

No problem with uniforms. It's much like a dress code. The devil is in the detail. Make the uniform/dress code practical and comfortable.

Not free. Paid for by tax payers, including myself.

You didn’t study economics did you? Or even the basics of finance. Maybe if schools hadn’t sucked all the joy out of your learning experience you might have been curious enough to discover education is not free.

It's free at the point of use, and your children would still get it even if you had never paid a penny in your life or suddenly lost your job.

Your preference isn't everyone's preference.

There is definitely a parental view that associates blazers and ties with better schools, probably because that's the uniform private schools tend to have.

Free at the point of use, yes. But as someone who IS paying for it - a taxpayer - why should I be so grateful i am.not allowed an opinion?

With work or school it comes down to following the dress code and if you don’t like it, go elsewhere.

That's a different argument.

Up until now it has been 'there are valid safety reasons for apparently arbitrary rules'.

Now it's 'the majority of parents want arbitrary rules because they want a certain appearance'.

Which is a bit contradictory to the narrative of 'parents should accept teachers know best about e.g. nail polish and not ask questions about the thinking behind the rule'.

You obviously didn't study it either, or you would know that it costs £7,500 per pupil per year. Only a portion of your taxes go towards education. You aren't paying anything like that just on education. And if you weren't paying anything at all your child would still have access to it.
Of course, if you WANT to pay the full cost, perhaps the system could be changed so the portion you pay is removed from your taxes. With that, of course, will come the reality that if, for whatever reason, you find yourself unable to manage the annual fee, your children will lose their place.
I am sure people with more than one child who aren't on 6 figure salaries to start with will love that. As will anyone who is made redundant or incapacitated by disability or illness.

There's nothing wrong with asking questions. But most people don't ask, they just assume it's arbitrary because THEY don't see the point.

Pupils just need to keep their head down and work hard and get through it.

People disagreeing with you is not the same as not allowing you to have an opinion...

I expect over my lifetime i will cover the costs of my education and health care, and be an overall contributor. There is every sign at the moment my children will as well, although DD2 has a chronic health condition.

You seem to forget tax is a lifetime cost, not just the years your child is at school.

I have no problem with people disagreeing with me - I am just asking why they hold that opinion.

So, when someone disagreeing about charms on pencil cases because they get lost, there are accusations of stealing etc I agreed they had a valid point. That was a good reason to ban them.

Yes, there are multiple arguments for having uniforms.

No one said you shouldn't ask 'why is this a rule'

What pisses teachers off is when people (like you) start banging on about 'petty' rules and fascist teachers when it turns out that there might actually be a reason for those rules.

And yet there are some schools that are very successful without petty rules.

DD's inner city state comp has a great SEN team and also sends pupils to Oxbridge and Russell Group unis. No rules about the colour of hair or nails. No rules about lacing shoes a particular way, or charms on pencil cases.

Plenty of intervention on behaviour that is disruptive or bullying. Any rule is clearly tied to creating a calm and safe learning environment.

So when I hear about other schools 'needing' to ban nail.polish my critical thinking faculties - from an excellent state comprehensive education - kick in.

I’m a net contributor as is dh, we’ve paid for our own education and our kids many times over. It’s not free!

You want to look at the rules of the state school that gets the most incredible results.