AIBU to think some school policies are at least partially responsible for the rise in pupil unhappiness?

[Alittlebitofmin]

A friend’s kid described school like a prison. He is likely to be a school success story set to get really good grades, but sees school as something to mainly tolerate. AIBU to think the school system itself is at least a significant partial reason why teenagers report lower levels of happiness at schools in England? Schools seem increasingly punitive and restrictive, pressure seems high, some children are even made to feel guilty if they have a day off sick.

School is easy street. If kids can't cope with that, they're gonna shit their pants when they discover what work is like.

It’s really not helped by parents going mad over reasonable rules and calling them draconian. Like being expected to bring a pen to lessons or not being allowed to leave lessons whenever they like.

Just get over it or get the parents to teach you at home I mean you could move to a really cheap area in the middle of nowhere with v small mortgage and teach your kids then you'd all be happy.
I think social media just teaches people to moan and flags up the bad things.
And this obsession with uniform - some of the dire sights on our streets would be in the school if you removed uniform.

Yes, some kids aren't coping in school. Some kids don't react well to rules and structure and sometimes that will be because of health / ND and sometimes be abuse of trauma / abuse happening outside of school. Those pupils would struggle with any large school at any point in time because you can't always get individual attention in a building containing 1000 children. Yes modern schools could be better at supporting such pupils but they would have also struggled 20 / 30+ years ago because school is a system for the masses - it's not a new problem. We are just better at recognising that certain pupils need extra help, doesn't mean it can always be provided effectively. My daughter at least knows who to go to in school if she needs help. I went to school in the 90s and never told anyone about the bullying I suffered because I had no confidence anyone would take me seriously

But if I wear the wrong shoes I'll get a pull. If my skirt is too short. I don't get to have flexible hours like dh, or have time in lieu or wfh.My friends who work in health care can't wear fake eyelashes or nails. That's life.

And no, kids shouldn't be answering back! I wasn't allowed at home or in school. My kids aren't allowed at home! That's an adult privilege.

School isn't supposed to be enjoyable, it's there to prepare kids for adult life. Kids that can't manage to sit still and focus on their work without messing about or looking at their phone aren't going to go far in the workplace, which is why we have so many NEETs.

Also, some (not all!) of the biggest causes of bad behaviour in schools which is not caused by neuro diversity are beyond schools' control because they happen at home - eg social media use leading to bullying and mental health issues, lack of structure around homework, bedtime, computer use, lack of resilience in dealing with boring / difficult tasks. These all cause children to act out at home and school but school can generally only punish the behaviour and can't solve the root cause.

I also think that kids who think school is a prison never had to go to church with their extended family every week.

So many life skills learned there.

I think things like not being allowed to use the toilet when needed can negatively impact otherwise well behaving and achieving pupils, as well as disruptive peers, substitute teachers and detentions for things like not having a ruler or something non uniform specific. Some of those things will be out of the child’s influence - for example a poor family may not be able to afford a particular calculator.

Depends entirely on the school and the personality of the child. My dd loves her secondary she has a nice friendship group. There are hardly any fights and she says she doesn't know of any bullying. The school are strict on uniform and from Sept they are having phone lockers. It's a catholic school, most parents are engaged in their child's education a lot of her friends parents are strict. Schools need to be strict, there are many schools that do Restorative practice but it means there are less suspensions but also the kids are getting away with murder to get their suspension stats down. I also work in a primary. Most kids are well behaved but there are a few that smash up classrooms and kick off. The whole class gets taken out whilst this happens it's very disruptive to the other kids. Most schools are like this from my experience. Too many kids with SEN needs, lack of support due to limited budgets, lots of parents that don't give a shit. Rewarding children for bad behaviour, makes well behaved kids think why do I bother when others are rewarded for being bad and good kids not getting any attention, getting to play extra football for example. Schools try thier best with limited resources. I would go for a strict school over any type of school if you want your child to have a decent education. I'd rather her be told off for not having a blazer and feel safe at school.

^This. In spades!

But that's not really new, though. At secondary in the 80s, we had no end of supply.

I think what IS new is that the outcome is more important. There's more pressure on kids now because the sorts of jobs us average kids in the eighties would be getting would get us a mortgage, etc. It didn't matter that I was shit at maths. I could still get a job that enabled me to rent on my own and get a mortgage at a young age. These days, you have to do a lot better than I did just to survive. Schools are forced into pushing kids more because frankly they've got to be better just to get by. Gone are the days when you could afford to be average or below average, leave at 16 and walk into a factory job like I did (well, at 18 in my case, but you get what I mean).

Kids feel that.

I think some schools have certainly lost the plot a bit.

A friend of mine’s 5 year old (in year 1) was admitted to hospital for several days. The school called my friend and said she needed to “consider the effect this will have on X’s learning”. The child was in oxygen in hospital. What did they want from her?? And you can blame Ofsted targets but there was no need to make a call with that message rather than “we’re calling to check up, hope she’s ok, any idea when she’ll be discharged, do you know yet whether she might need any accommodations to help her get back to school” which would still be checking in and highlighting back to school, but a bit more fucking human. And if they aren’t arsed about the welfare of the 5 year old child in hospital, then I doubt they’re good for SEN or bullying or children with long term medical conditions, or anything that needs them to care about something other than their statistics.

As a teacher, the lack of respect is huge. Parents don't teach kids respect or take responsibility for them .......it's a very hard job

I’m in Scotland and in no way saying our education system is great, it absolutely is not and I would say it’s getting worse but the difference in the rules that English schools have seem totally alien to me.
My DC’s headmaster told us at our first open evening, there was a uniform but he would never send a child home because of uniform. His exact words were it is more important that they are here than what they are wearing.
Also the way non attendance is dealt with seems very heavy handed. The fines for non attendance again would never happen up here.
Some of the rules seem to me nothing to do with the education and more to do with power

This!

Too many parents let their kids rule the roost at home so when they go to school and have to deal with order and discipline they can't cope. Parents are to blame, not schools or teachers.

They're hideous and significantly worse than when we made the decision to home educate our children about 18 years ago. They were bad enough then and that was one of the factors in our decision.

I'm very glad our DC have never had the 'pleasure' of being incarcerated in a UK secondary school.

What would people criticising the education system like to see instead? Schools are under funded and inevitably have to cater for the majority. Pastoral care and performance tracking didn’t exist probably 25 years ago to the same extent. Many of the ‘draconian’ rules such as no toilet access is due to the appalling and intimidating behaviour of pupils. Most teachers would far rather be able to be relaxed and enjoy their classes, the behaviour of many pupils does not allow this to be the norm.
Its interesting that many posters would like to see a different system, others want schools to offer longer hours!

I think maybe schools are trying to manage the worst behaviour in a way that ends up targeting everyone because it’s so difficult to amend the behaviour of some kids or to get rid of them tbh. So everyone suffers.

I also think that a lot of parents have no idea what schools are actually like and believe everything their teenager tells them....

by the very definition of pupil if they are unhappy it's due to the school.
i believe many schools are too big and lack that personal touch where the staff know it's okay that child xyz doesn't have the right shoes this week and are able to make personal adjustments.

boils down to finances and lack of investment; there needs to be many more specialty schools.

the curriculum is dull especially for the less able. There’s less choice at gcse to do subjects that suit their ability. Not everybody is academic and the creative subjects/ practical subjects or courses have definitely been squeezed out at KS4.

we can thank Gove for that.
Also the pressure on schools to have good attendance comes from the government and Ofsted so if you’re looking to blame anyone, start there.

Yes I think a lot of this is true.

Agree about too many parents not valuing or being encouraging enough about education. I also feel too much is geared towards university admission, which is not for everyone, and indeed if you took away the poor quality ones, is probably only for about a fifth of young people.

The focus on rules which do not apply in the world of work I don't think helps either.