AIBU to think some school policies are at least partially responsible for the rise in pupil unhappiness?

[Alittlebitofmin]

A friend’s kid described school like a prison. He is likely to be a school success story set to get really good grades, but sees school as something to mainly tolerate. AIBU to think the school system itself is at least a significant partial reason why teenagers report lower levels of happiness at schools in England? Schools seem increasingly punitive and restrictive, pressure seems high, some children are even made to feel guilty if they have a day off sick.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5568203-aibu-to-think-some-school-policies-are-at-least-partially-responsible-for-the-rise-in-pupil-unhappiness?reply=154250611&utm_campaign=reply&utm_medium=share

I agree OP but suspect theres a lot of teachers on this post who will blame students and families.
Schools are horrible and strip away teenagers individuality and confidence and like them all to look and act alike. They almost stamp out any individuality and the rough kids still terrorise the more meek but its more difficult to deal with them so its ignored.
I remember getting told of for nail varnish by teachers wearing it, same with make up... if it was such a distraction to my learning surely the teachers would be too distracted to teach?? Make it make sense. I was fat with acne so a bit of make up and nail varnish made me feel more human.
I hated sitting in a freezing cold classroom with only a shirt and skirt with socks on whilst teachers were able to wear boots and jumpers etc
School could've been so much more attractive if I was comfortable physically and treated like a human and not a number.

Ok, have reread this. I was side tracked by you saying you couldn't go in with your tie 'incorrectly ' knotted.

A bit niche, admittedly? How many jobs have a tie, let alone a specific way of knotting it?

Yep. Same rules for teachers as students...

Because the point of rules is to function as a community.

There's a way you knot ties. You can't just tie it in a bow. Ties are less common now, but when I was at school, most males in office roles wore ties. We learnt how to do a tie correctly. I remember my Dad showing me, took me ages to get it because I had crap motor skills.

Ties not being worn often now is why, understandably, you wouldn't realise that it isn't like putting a knot in a piece of string.

And I apologise for thinking you were the parent of the 'charm' children. You responded but it was a different poster I originally replied to.

Ok so you wanted to wear a bit of nail varnish and you think that is ok. What about students with long nails, what about students with diamantés nails? Are they allowed? Some nails can be dangerously or stop students writing, at what point do you tell them to stop? Do you negotiate student by student?
It very quickly gets very complicated. Far easier to say no nail varnish, all nails kept short.

Skirts are too short, should we let students wear skirts however they want? You end up with students with virtually no coverage, some one is always pushing it.

All the parents on these threads fondly remembering their own teenage years believe all the students are reasonable and if only teachers would listen then common sense would reign. Life in schools is ver, very different to that.

My DC found school stifling and restrictive but realised they were not bullied and felt generally safe and were prepared to trade the lack of freedom for not being scared of being beaten up.

No, the teachers don't have to follow the same rules as the children because we are adults and they are children.

Just like you presumably didn't follow the same rules as your children when they were young, despite you being a family.

Forgot to say, I am not male, I was talking about learning to knot a tie when I was at school. Most males wore ties in office work back then, so we all understood ties had to be done a certain way. Dads taught their sons and in my case, daughters for school.

I wasn’t expecting so many replies. Thank you. I’ve started reading this thread in reverse. This post seems sensible to me. Rules should be logical, punishment should be proportionate.

I have had a lot of 'agree' emojis ,but I can understand why people don't want to post if they agree with me. It's pretty nasty, just querying whether the rules have a purpose

You didn't just query if the rules had a purpose though. You suggested it was akin to Nazi Germany and also that school rules would foster an environment where kids could be sexually assaulted.

Both highly offensive comments.

The problem, though, is people deciding the rules are illogical without even asking why they are imposed. It might appear illogical to you if you've not actually worked in a school with thousands of pupils and seen the impact of kids doing certain things.

Not understanding why a rule exists isn't always the same as that rule being totally arbitrary.
Some people think the ban on disposable barbecues is illogical. I don't because I live in a area near moors where a fire started by a disposable barbecue caused a blaze that took a month to put out. Depressingly, some see ANY rule that restricts them as some sort of power-play done for control.

I generally think we shouldnt be too concerned with what young adults are wearing to school, their hair colour, nails, make up etc is nothing to do with teachers and wont impact their ability to learn. Things like this are simply a power play. If the purpose is to get young adults used to the work force then teachers can demonstrate by following the same uniform rules.....
If you are really worried about students wearing short skirts, make the uniform the same for everyone and make it comfortable, cheap and accessible. All students to wear black/navy trousers, white polo shirt etc.

Teachers are there to do a job which is teach, thats it. If they spent half as much time actually doing it and not faffing about wondering if Amanda's make up is too heavy or Claire nails are too distracting and how to then punish those children instead of letting them feel comfortable in school then maybe more kids wouldnt have these issues.

Im also not sure why youve mentioned being beaten up? This doesnt have anything to do with uniforms, nails or make up. My extremely strict school kids still got beaten up.

I'd love it if all I had to do was teach.

So at home do you have the same rules for parents and children?
Because surely family is a community?

Kids are allowed to come and go as they please during break times, so i don't believe it's about the bullying, as that can happen just as much then, more so potentially as the teacher isn't noticing a child missing from a lesson for some time and asking another member of staff to follow it up.That's just a handy excuse the schools have concocted.
I've heard of children wetting themselves due to being prevented from going to the toilet....kids with bowel issues nearly soiling themselves because of teachers not allowing them out of class...imagine if this happened in the workplace because an adult was stopped from going to the toilet! Why do you think children are not equal to adults? Sure, they are different, but they still deserve to have their needs and rights respected!

Staff are duty at the toilets at break and lunchtime so no, it's not a "handy excuse that schools have concocted".

And I can't go to the toilet whenever I want either. Because I have a class of students in front of me.

Breaktime toilet duty is the worst duty. Especially when you know ten of them are in one cubicle but they won’t come out and you have to go to your lesson. Pain in the arse.

Registers are taken every lesson at the start. Its part of safeguarding. If a student is not present and was present the previous lesson and I did not alert the correct person in the usual procedure I would be hauled over the coals - I would be emailed if my register was not submitted within the first 15 mins. If something that is a safeguarding concern is flagged up to me I must report it immediately via the electronic platforms . Someone on duty would come to your classroom and speak to you . That's pretty standard nowadays. As for the job for being - just to teach.. pfft if only

There are also pastoral staff etc who patrol corridors and toilets in school lesson times.
I'm sure if you felt sick/were starting your period/had diahorrea/were bursting for a wee, you could radio another member of staff who would come and take over your lesson briefly so you could go, without question, annoyance or being threatened with a detention.

Or you have to go to the loo on the way because you're only allowed to go at break and you're late and the smug twat on SLT who teaches less in a week than you do in a day is tapping his watch....

Fuck off.

Wow. Not in my school.

And we're as broke as broke can be, so it's not going to happen.

While I'm sure it must occasionally happen (that a child wets themselves) it hasn't happened to anyone in my class in over 25 years.

Radio a member of staff to go to the toilet? Pastoral staff patrolling the corridors in lessons? What?

And the nearest staff toilet is about 5 minutes from my classroom.

Secondary class teachers don’t have radios. Getting someone to come and look after your class whilst you dash to the loo - I have email someone , settle a class . I recall doing that once as I’d spent the whole of break dealing with an incident and I’d run out of time to go perimenopause meant a belt and braces approach if you get my drift . You just don’t .