AIBU to think some school policies are at least partially responsible for the rise in pupil unhappiness?

[Alittlebitofmin]

A friend’s kid described school like a prison. He is likely to be a school success story set to get really good grades, but sees school as something to mainly tolerate. AIBU to think the school system itself is at least a significant partial reason why teenagers report lower levels of happiness at schools in England? Schools seem increasingly punitive and restrictive, pressure seems high, some children are even made to feel guilty if they have a day off sick.

POW Camp because they can't go to the toilet in lessons

Nazi Germany because they can't have a charm on their bag

Do some people know what this sounds like?

I really don’t think they care. Like parent like child.

I think the rules should have a purpose- to create an environment where everyone can learn.

Rules that serve no purpose create an environment where adults are allowed to have power over children because they are adults i.e. adults can abuse children at whim. By irrelevant rules, by physical or sexual contact. Because adults get to set the rules, without any justification

Don't be silly.

Nope. If DD was disrupting class I would have plenty to say to her. But if teachers set random rules with no purpose then I would be asking why, and what they were trying to achieve with those rules.

Teachers don't set the rules.

But the rules in my school are fairly straightforward:

Listen to staff and do as you are asked.
Come with the right equipment.
Use the toilet at free time.
Be polite.
Wear uniform appropriately.

Nothing shocking there - hardly a POW camp.

Why is that silly?

Surely rules - whether school rules, or the law - are for a purpose? To set a standard of how we live in a community. And the fundamental principle is we don't do things that negatively affect each other.

So, don't disrupt a class, so other pupils can learn. Don't steal or attack other people, because we should all live free from fear.

But beyond that we have freedom to make our choices.

Lacing shoes a particular way? Having a charm.on a pencil case?

How does that negatively affect other people?

Sure. And then you'd be told the reason like there was some massive craze for having a billion charms and it was causing a huge pain in the arse so they were banned. Or that kids were wandering around with their shoelaces untied so they specified that they should be tied properly.

Or you could assume that teachers have nothing better to do than come up with rules just to annoy you.

It is silly, or even offensive, that you tried likening banning charms on bags to Nazi Germany and that you suggested that banning charms on bags was creating the sort of conditions where an adult could sexually abuse a child.

May I suggest that you get a grip.

That sounds very sensible.

Unless you have very prescriptive rules about uniform, of course, such as shoes must be laced a certain way.

Otherwise I would say all those rules are based on reasonable community living.

If your school specifies the way shoes must be laced i would question how that contributes to the school community

Why do you think the charms of laces rules were imposed in the first place?

Sure, if pupils are walking round with untied laces - a trip hazard - then say they must be tied.

But I can't see why it matters if they are tied one way or the other.

How do charms on a bag become a pain in the arse?

What exactly is the problem you are trying to solve?

I know many teachers in many schools and not one which specifies how students lace their shoes.

However, I am forever telling students to tie their laces - it recently occurred to me that many of them actually don't know how, which is why they're tucked in... or flapping about and causing a trip hazard.

Pencil case charms are not an issue. Toys 100% are. We have had to ban toys from the classroom because they get broken or stolen and then all hell breaks loose. Unbelievably, this is a secondary school - "put the car/horse/dinosaur away" is not something I expected to ever need to say at work.

You have clearly never worked in a school if you’ve not experienced a craze for bringing crap in.

Oh, FFS. It's about being able to follow a simple instruction, which, whether we like it or not, is a skill we all need.

It's not hard. It's not asking your kids to do something terrible without question.
Critical thinking is knowing when boundaries need pushing and when following a simple instruction that isn't going to cause your any problem isn't the end of the world.
If they have needs which make this difficult, yes, allowances should be made, but otherwise, FFS, how hard is it to leave the charm at home and lace your shoes as asked?

The mini fucking skateboard.

That poster citing these examples of bag charm is not a UK poster and said so . Australian faith based schools are notorious for extremely strict uniform rules . They also have a very different admission systems. A lot of the behaviour issues and societal issues being discussed are around the UK state schools.

Ok, so we agree rules about charms are not reasonable in UK schools?

Ok, so specifying how students lace their shoes is not reasonable? As long as they are tied and not a trip hazard?

Fuck that shit.

I have loads of those in my desk.

It's noticeable that posters who attacked me for querying the charms/ laces rules are now highlighting they aren't in the UK, having defended them several times!

Yes, fucking toys!

I was destroyed in high school in yr 7 (by other kids) because the way I had my socks made me look like virgin. I'd have been killed if I took actual toys in.

I've had to tell yr 9, apparently nt kids to put their toys away. And yes, there was dark sarcasm dripping from every fucking word there. I've been teaching over 20 years, but bringing toys to school is a new one.

Schools ban all sorts of crap if it causes a problem.

Your assumption would be that it wasn’t causing a problem and the rule was for the hell of it.

There are plenty of rules in society that you and I consider sensible and for everyone's benefit, but others think are silly and shouldn't apply to them. The recent business about disposable barbecues being a case in point. Several people where I live think it's stupid government interference.
Perhaps we should all just decide what rules are important to us, and not bother. If we don't think it matters, it doesn't matter. Let's see how that goes, shall we? Let's see how a society of people who can't follow a really simple instruction which won't negatively affect them gets on.