AIBU to think some school policies are at least partially responsible for the rise in pupil unhappiness?

[Alittlebitofmin]

A friend’s kid described school like a prison. He is likely to be a school success story set to get really good grades, but sees school as something to mainly tolerate. AIBU to think the school system itself is at least a significant partial reason why teenagers report lower levels of happiness at schools in England? Schools seem increasingly punitive and restrictive, pressure seems high, some children are even made to feel guilty if they have a day off sick.

The spoonfeeding is ridiculous now. Some of it is from the SATs focused curriculum through primary school and less resourcing to facilitate more open, creative work (glue sticks, sugar paper) and the politcal culture against it (which I suspect is significantly lead by lack of inclination to fund it dressed up as academia and rigour)

Some of it is from home life. Less time for open play with parents working longer hours and structured childcare and leisure time. Risk averse culture reducing casual outdoor play. More access to fast-paced entertainment on screens; even the pace of a child's cartoon feels manic compared to the 80s/ 90s. Slow entertainment such as reading, drawing, pottering around a garden is less appealing in comparison. I'm not criticising parenting; heck, I've fallen into some of those traps because of the way society and parenting culture is set up and some of it is hard to swerve. That's aside from unsupportive families whose attitudes undermine education.

Going back into a classroom after a substantial break, the proportion of students reluctant and struggling to think for themselves has changed significantly, and levels of self-motivation and independent working are much lower. This is between demographically very similar schools that are geographically close.

Poor pupil behaviour by a significant number of children has caused this and unfortunately othhers pay for it.

If your aim is to make schools more closely reflect the workplace, one step would be getting rid of the more pointless rules. Schools are not preparing kids for the modern workplace currently.

Employers regularly say their priorities are teamwork, critical thinking, creativity. some schools emphasise competition, compliance, and test prep instead.

This is a whole system issue, not a teacher issue.

You are right. Shocking.
i was just curious as to why Scotland won’t exclude any student.
We definitely do at the school where I work…

This just doesn't work for children with executive function challenges though. My intelligent, hard working, well behaved autistic DD spent 5 years in a highly anxious state over rules like this because however hard she tries she will forget things. And yes we supported her with appropriate systems and strategies but it doesn't always work. Second child is much happier at a different school with a different ethos.

Lifewise - I was the last grammar year.

There was never any disruption in the classroom. We wouldn't have dared. Even now I can see the steely glare of Miss Smith when she considered a piece of work had been badly done (and she liked me!).

You are definitely not being unreasonable (high/secondary schools definitely) Same ridiculous rules applied to all students just because of afew problematic ones (such as the absolutely inhumane and draconian locking of toilets) I went to secondary school 2000-2004 and there was none of this, although you would expect it to have got better not worse, with increased awareness of mental health etc.Sadly it is reflective of society's still rampant view that children are 'below' adults, so rather than trying to be on a level with kids and showing understanding, empathy and valuing them as individuals, kids are often subjected to disciplinarian and authoritatian staff who sometimes seem to just like getting a power trip.
Kids are understandably rebelling due to feeling angry and frustrated, so challenging behaviour and emotional distress resulting in EBSA and kids hating school have increased significantly, which is a shame.
There seems to be more and more clamping down expecting them to behave like some sort of compliant robots.
I'm DREADING my daughter starting in 2yrs time.Luckily as she has ASD, she should at least have an EHCP to help us fight for her needs, but I don't see it going well for her.

Yes a feature of a KS3 lesson was occasionally teach a short song in the target language ( usually in the text book) - a good filler on a Friday period 6 - not something I would do with a self conscious year 10 group or boisterous boy heavy group but a Y7 top set or grammar stream in the autumn no problem - they'd enjoy belting it out, we'd do actions maybe - it would be age appropriate. Yep that that kind of activity doesn't work anymore - it falls flat on it face - they are very very reluctant to sing, even for fun even diligent children are reluctant . Generally I found during covid especially ( not unsurprisingly) a lot of young people had lost their sense of humour, they were unhappy and looking to vent their unhappiness on me. - equally long ranty emails from parents that just seem to miss the point .

It is better than it was in the 70s and 80s. And children are not equal to adults, treating them as if they are is what had led to a lot of the issues.

How do you think they should deal with the misbehaviour, given that if they single out the problem ones, their parents start banging on about their human rights?

Or would you be okay with your child being bullied in the toilets because the kids are allowed to come and go as they please?

I was like that (AuDHD not diagnosed til my 50s) but there wasn’t the support or recognition of ND then.

Whatever you may think, things are better than they were.

If she goes out to work, she will be able to access reasonable adjustments but will still be expected to do her job to the required standard. The world isn’t created for ND people unfortunately so even with the kindest school in the world, it’s going to be hard,

Someone has told the Scottish government that excluding kids permanently puts them on a fast track to prison, and they actually believed that, rather than thinking that maybe if a child behaves badly enough to warrant exclusion they may already be on a fast track to prison anyway.

But it was a hard sell to my child. ‘I know you have bean beaten up all week but hey at least you taking a daily beating will reduce Baileys chances of ending up in prison so it’s all worth it’. 🙄

It's incredibly hard to PEX. The damage the other kids have to suffer whilst schools collect the evidence to get it to stick is indescribable. Unless you're the kid who gets beaten so badly you're taken to A&E - then it's pretty clear what the damage is.

Even when shown the cctv, the parents of the perpetrator were adamant their kid wouldn't do such a thing.

So PEXing them isn't what sends them to prison. Their behaviour is what sends them to prison.

But why does it matter whether they have a charm and lace their shoes a different way? How does it affect their education or the people around them?

Surely this is the perfect example of rules for the sake of compliance? Rather than rules to ensure everyone can learn?

Personal items in school like bag charms tend to be vetoed because they are easily lost/damaged/stolen.

Laces: it's all part of the uniform, like I couldn't go in with my tie knotted incorrectly.

I would still like to know why your daughters can't just leave the charm at home and do their laces as asked. Then they won't get into trouble.

It’s a system that will never suit everyone because we are all so different.
Thankfully in adult life we can choose jobs that suit our personalities and abilities. It’s just hurdle we need to get through first. I am not looking forward to that chapter with my kids I agree with you 100%.
Our LA will not authorise ANY absence in the first half term of the school year. So if loved one passes during that time you can be fined if your child can’t face school. Their mental health takes a massive hit but as long as the LA meet their attendance goals it’s all good it seems.

A LOT better than they were. Not perfect by any means, but nobody had fidget toys, brain breaks or any of that. You were in class, you sat down, you shut up, got shouted at and humiliated if you didn't. So much was wrong with that, of course, but it does annoy me that people think schools being tough was invented in the last ten years and that we all floated about doing what we liked.

Really? Very few jobs require a tie these days. A 'wrongly ' knotted tie?

I assume the military? But most people don't go into the military, so why set school rules as if that is the norm?

A lost charm? Pupils are responsible for their belongings. No big deal. If it is distressing to lose it, don't bring it to school. A learning opportunity to look after something valuable. Most charms aren't valuable. If you will be distressed if it gets lost don't bring it to school.

Nail on head.

I went to school in the eighties. Adults still wore ties then, though not usually women.
You still haven't answered why your daughters can't leave the totally unimportant cheap charm at home, and do their laces as asked.

If your child wants to challenge the rules then they can join the school council or email the headteacher with a proposition or whatever.

If they break the rule and get the specified sanction, then boo hoo, suck it up.

Oh god.... the lost precious fidget toy. How many of those sagas do we need to deal with?

And if the charm and laces are so totally unimportant and irrelevant to their learning, then children can manage without the charm, and can simply do the laces as asked. I don't get why that's so hard.

But adults aren't always perfect, and some are abusive.

Children are not second class citizens.

Yes, schools should have rules, pupils should not disrupt learning, should pay attention.

But obeying weird and arbitrary rules for the sake of conformity? No. And they should not also have to accept abuse from adults for the sake of conformity.

Lacing your shoes a particular way? How does that matter in creating a learning environment?

It is an arbitrary rule. Those who choose to join the military will have to accept arbitrary rules. Most pupils won't choose to join the military. In 40 years of employment i have never had an employer care about how I lace my footwear.

Why is it so important to do it a different way? Isn't that just kicking against it for the sake of it? Still waiting for why having a charm and lacing their shoes different is so vitally important to your children's learning that they'd rather get in trouble over it than leave the charm at home and lace their shoes as asked.

Because lacing your shoes a particular way is just bullying. The imposition of power without any reason.

Do you really want young people to obey the powerful without any critical thinking? That's heading to Nazi Germany in the 30s.

I 100% support rules that create a calm learning environment. Pupils should not disrupt lessons, and there should be consequences if they do.

I don't think blind obedience to random, arbitrary rules makes any difference to academic achievement. It is just a power trip by the adults involved.