AIBU to think some school policies are at least partially responsible for the rise in pupil unhappiness?

[Alittlebitofmin]

A friend’s kid described school like a prison. He is likely to be a school success story set to get really good grades, but sees school as something to mainly tolerate. AIBU to think the school system itself is at least a significant partial reason why teenagers report lower levels of happiness at schools in England? Schools seem increasingly punitive and restrictive, pressure seems high, some children are even made to feel guilty if they have a day off sick.

Are the rules actually more draconian than they used to be?

In the 1970s all the local schools had strict dress codes. We had compulsory homework. No food or drink to be eaten in the classroom. Water only from the fountain between classes. No phones of course. Transgressions were punished with order marks and detentions if you racked up enough points. Corporal punishment was permitted although never used in my school. Teachers had authority and were not afraid to useit.

Did I like school? No not much but that was the way it just was.

Nowadays I suspect it's because the younger generations are actually expected to follow rules and they are just not used to it so they kick off knowing that nowadays teachers are not allowed to do much about it.

Don’t be ridiculous.
You can visit the bathroom before tutor, after tutor, break, lunch, between 5 lessons ….
Anyone who can’t manage having around 8 opportunities to go to the loo has a medical issue.
And yes girls can get caught out and that is acceptable. What is not acceptable is going to the bathroom to vape/ make some phone calls/ take some weed etc. These students also terrorise other students who are too afraid to use the bathroom. Is that OK?

What happens if a student brings a knife into school, deals drugs etc?

@Alittlebitofmin the rules aren't draconian. They are there as it's the only way to manage 1500 kids on one site.

The children that have the problems are generally the ones that come from homes that lack structure and discipline, and then all of a sudden have to spend 6 hours a day doing what they are to - something they're not used to.

Schools are no way near as draconian as they used to be.

If all parents disciplined their children and taught them how to respect and follow rules and why rules are important, then most problems in schools would be eliminated.

The backlash will be on the kids NOT from the kids.
The world of work is far more ‘prison-like’ than school. We need to teach our kids how to find their happiness within a system they’ll need to accept.
Kids don’t like being told what to do and/or how to do it, and parents are indulging their dislike. Good luck when they get jobs!

You don't need to look to Scotland for that

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdxj0752n2lo

Harvey Wilgoose was killed in school by a pupil who had a history of bringing weapons to school and who brought a BB gun on a school trip.

I feel like people have no idea what goes on in schools and what gets let go. A pupil being transferred to a new school without any information sharing about how dangerous they are is something that I know has happened more than just in that case.

Im not in UK (doesnt say UK in thread title) but the opposite can also be true.
2 of my kids are the rule following, academic type and they are starting to get disengaged from school in certain situations because they have been told off for ridiculous things that take away from actual schooling, mainly tiny things like having a charm on the zipper of their backpack or having their shoes laced the wrong way.

I went to a really authoritarian school and it was miserable.

We moved and went to a liberal, chill school and I had an amazing time

They could just not have the charm and lace their shoes the right way, though, if they don't want to get told off. It's not like they are being asked to do something impossibly hard.

I taught in a school with shit discipline and girls were routinely sexually assaulted in the corridors, behaviour in lessons was chaotic and teachers were physically assaulted at the rate of one a week. No one was expelled and teachers were expected to continue teaching the child who assaulted them.

It was an awful place and the results were absolutely terrible. If someone wanted to come in and 'turn it around', then they would absolutely have to bring in some strict rules.

One wonders which of those two versions of the school would be the more miserable.

"School has rules"

Parents backed them up as well. I got smacked once in primary school, hard enough to leave a handprint on my bare thigh. Never told my parents, they would have said I shouldn't have done the thing I was slapped for.

@noblegiraffe mine was an all girls state grammar so I was lucky

Selective schools can certainly afford to be more liberal and chill than schools that don't get to select their intake.

I taught secondary MFL for 16 years and then I had to leave education due to caring responsibilities i around 2013. I have since left again but I did a stint of long term mat supply at a large school I had taught at previously for a few years through covid and after. With a six year break , quite a few colleagues asked what had changed . Basically behaviour, workload and the profile of the students from a demographic point of view ( same middle class area)

As a case in point when I taught say Year 8 clothes in French in around 2004 we would cover colours and adjectival endings . At the of the unit usually at the end of term/ half term I could fill up the week and get the test marking done at my desk in class or even carry out little speaking exams whilst the class got into groups and prepared a fashion show catwalk in French. This would be a mixed ability class of girls and boys with usually a couple of SEND children . I might have a regular TA , usually assigned to one child permanently. The kids would write a simple script in French in little groups - I'd have put some guidelines and phrases on the board . I'd crack on with marking and or do more speaking tests at the front. They'd get into groups , rehearse on corridors sensibly . Often more studious one would write an work on scripts and rehearse at home or ask to come and rehearse after school . A lot of the boys would get in the swing of it - often quite happy to dress up in a dress borrowed from nan at home for a laugh., but quite often it would be football kit. Shyer students would opt to read a bit of the script or work the tape recorder. We'd have a great lesson where all the fashions shows / catwalk in French would happen and we'd vote for the best. Somebody might be a bit loud or silly , occasionally I'd have to intervene a group where there had been a falling out . I did that lesson for years. Didn't matter the ability of the class - they loved it and had fun. Quite often your cheekiest not particularly able lad would just be brilliant would give it a go , come out their comfort zone and smash it.

By 2021 - attempting such a lesson would be impossible. The pace of the curriculum and testing means no time to " fritter" such a week . Students would not be allowed to work on a corridor. A large majority of the class would point blank refuse to do it in front of their peers citing anxiety issues or parents will email in and ask for alternative work . Boys dressing as pantomime dame style would invite horrible comments and suddenly it would be problematic, and SLT would likely discourage it . Group work would be impossible - many completely disengaging and becoming rough and physical - socials skills were weak . The whole exercise would be an utter nightmare in classroom management - tantrums and disagreement could easily flare up . Some students would question the worth of doing it - saying they will not do it as it was boring or pointless. after a behaviour incident SLT would question the academic worth of the exercise and my poor classroom management . So go figure . With some classes I could not do something as simple as a team game to practice a concept . It would become a flashpoint or opportunity for poor behaviour , calling out and some students could not cope with it all. I would not have a regular TA to support me if at all. I was not a walkover of a teacher- I trained in some ropey schools in the north in 90's, I had good classroom management skills - everything had changed so much . Really sad.

I agree. The human condition comes into many things without us realising.

I don't recognise this 'prison-like' description of work at all. Have family in a wide range of sectors.

To be fair I would rather have poked my eyes out than participated in a catwalk fashion show at school. And I say that as someone who was in the school play for several years!

I have never worked in any company with pointless rules. I've worked in companies with rules for a good reason.
Which companies have pointless rules? Why would any business do that?

I’ve worked in an actual prison. It didn’t feel anything as bad as schools do.
I worked in a school. Horrific experience. Nearly everyone was a bully.
I worked for Disney, as a face character, that felt more prison like and was close to school. Bullies were rife.
I worked for a factory. Lovely job, didn’t feel prison like at all.
I now work for myself. Other than my boss (me) can be a bit of a slave driver I love my job.
The only two jobs I can say out of my most recent ones which were like prisons were Disney and School, now why is that? If the government could work out that, there would be a lot more, happier, healthier children who actually thrive in the workplace.

Some people find perfectly normal rules pointless and frustrating.

Strangely enough it’s often the younger members of staff who claim to feel like this.

So the rules themselves are not pointless. This is what I was saying, at work there's a point to the rules.

The commercial world doesn’t revolve around making workers happy. It revolves around people doing a job and being paid for it. The government isn’t responsible for making sure people are happy while doing it.

Unless that changes, it is better for those children to understand that you work to earn money to live.

Ditto. I was at an all-girls school, first year of comprehensive schooling. We were all TERRIFIED of the Head, she only had to look at us to have us pulling down our skirts and checking our ties. If she called you to her office for 'a little chat' you were absolutely quaking in your shoes. Yet there was only detention for her to hold over us as punishment.

So whether it was draconian or not I don't know. But I do know we knuckled down and learned and there was very very little disruption in the classrooms.

It was a bit of fun in the classroom with children in my class - not a full on fashion show - we are talking walking up and down the length of the classroom wearing your outfit from home or your even your school uniform whilst somebody who preferred not to to read out " Ici Gemma , Gemma porte un pantalon noir" etc etc whilst they got to play the latest pop song in the classroom, a break from the usual - using their creative skills - all very unsophisticated. The learning was happening in the group work beforehand, social skills teamwork etc. Plus everyone just got on with it and got out their comfort zone - That was the point !!! I'm sure there was a few who would have rather not have done it but hey they weren't upending a table or telling me " I aint f*cking do it" and running out the door. The rules I think were stricter in the past. If I caught someone graffiting in the 90's in a rough non leafy secondary - you came back to my classroom at lunch ( a good hour - natch), got handed a tub of Pink stuff and a cloth & you got scrubbing . They often quite liked it after a while and finished the job finding it therapeutic . No way could I ask a student to do that now . Our social fabric changed - poverty has had huge impact .