AIBU to think some school policies are at least partially responsible for the rise in pupil unhappiness?

[Alittlebitofmin]

A friend’s kid described school like a prison. He is likely to be a school success story set to get really good grades, but sees school as something to mainly tolerate. AIBU to think the school system itself is at least a significant partial reason why teenagers report lower levels of happiness at schools in England? Schools seem increasingly punitive and restrictive, pressure seems high, some children are even made to feel guilty if they have a day off sick.

That’s great - good luck with getting them to be able to do exams. I guess if there are fewer choices then it won’t matter.

This sounds horrendous, particularly fewer choices of subject.

Totally agree. Im lucky enough that my son attends grammar school where he gets detention for proper reasons only.
It seems to be that standard secondary schools can no longer cope with any ruly disruptive children and so implementing stupid rules across the board, like reflection time for dropping a pencil, or refusing toilet access without proof you need it.
Inevitable consequence of benefit street parents who don't bring their kids up properly and especially the closure of all the old special schools who used to take all the difficult kids: now everyone with special needs is forced into mainstream education even though it's clearly dreadful for them.
You wouldn't accept working conditions where you had to prove to a manager that you're on your period to go to the loo! Why should young adults have to?

As someone pointed out upthread, if you called a colleague or your boss a cunt or threw a chair at them, you wouldn’t just be sent to an isolation room.

And if someone is deemed to be taking the piss with timekeeping or whatever at work then they can be sacked. So it’s not like it’s all so unfair in schools and that work is so much easier.

Because kids say they're on their period then meet up to have sex/vape/take drugs/piss about in the toilets.

It's not rocket science. No one ever has a solution to that problem though.

so what if they are? they're still not animals so stop treating them like that.

never heard of being expelled?

Er, so what if kids are having sex, taking drugs and vaping in the toilets? Really?

Schools do have a duty of care which involves safeguarding kids against that sort of thing.

I’m in Scotland. Permanent exclusion is banned here. Hence plummeting educational standards. Ruled uphold a leaning environment. No rules and no one learns anything.

If your kid lied to the teacher and went for a vape in the loose would you rather they got a weeks detention or a blind eye was turned?

so you're in favour of treating young adults like they're in a POW camp are you?

i fully support detention - like i said earlier - but i don't support it for ridiculous reasons and I don't support treating people in a way you would be unhappy with yourself
i do hope your boss locks you up and stops you from going when you are next in need of a loo visit

But they still have to have some level of education up to a certain age anyway so it’s not comparable to consequences in a working environment.

Whats the solution to them beating each other, smoking, skiving off etc?

What's with the hyperbole? Telling them to go to the toilet between lessons instead of during lessons is not treating them like they're in a POW camp.

i do hope your boss locks you up and stops you from going when you are next in need of a loo visit

I'm a teacher, I can't go to the toilet in lessons. 20 years of being locked up and stopped from going #prayfornoblegiraffe

So what is your solution then?

Children and adults are treated differently by necessity. A parent may have to physically force their small child to clean its teeth - as an adult you can suit yourself whether or not you choose to clean them.

Do you have any idea what POWs endured and do you really want to compare that to children having to stay in the classroom for an hour?

I treat my boss with respect and he treats me with respect accordingly. Do you think going to mess around in the loo is treating the teacher with respect? Do you think being asked to dress a certain way and not bothering because you can’t be arsed is treating the school (or the workplace if an adult) with respect?

Undoubtedly they can be useful. I belong to quite a big church one and the owner of it monitors extremely closely.

That's great, but unfortunately we aren't in a world where being employable doesn't matter. When I was at school, most of us could expect our jobs to pay us enough to live on, even if that was factory work. Today's kids face a far more competitive market, in which they will need to be far more specialist to earn anything like a decent wage. You can't just bodge by on 5 average GCSEs now like I did.

There's a lot more pressure because there are fewer unskilled jobs that pay enough, or unskilled jobs where you can work your way up. If we really want to change the school system, we have to change the world those kids are going into. The vast majority of 'average' kids are going to be left behind in a world that increasingly requires less labour. You can be a lot more free and easy about schooling when the masses can leave at 16 or 18 and earn enough on the factory floor to rent a flat/get a mortgage as I did.

It's really difficult to expel children now. It's an absolute last resort. It's certainly not the instant dismissal that would happen in the workplace.

I don't really see what's so unreasonable about expecting them to wait until a lesson ends to go to the loo? If I was in a work meeting or training session I couldn't just leave willy nilly to go to the loo either. I mean we're talking secondary age here not 4 yr olds?

I do think that schools are implementing discipline to a crazy level because otherwise the kids run riot due to a lack of parental discipline.

I've seen a massive shift in the last ten years about kids behaviour out of school. And what parents will and won't allow.

It's the abdication of responsibility from the parents that absolutely the problem. Parents don't think they are responsible for teaching their kids anything. The number with zero life skills at all who leave education is shocking.

The schools really don't have a lot of choice tbh. If you have a school year of 200+ how do actual manage them if they have been taught to have zero respect for teachers?

I don't think it's a school problem as such as a result. I think it's a wider social problem - potentially with less involved parents and extended family. If you don't know your neighbours you are more likely to be a cheeky twat. If you know your neighbour is going to tell your Dad you are being a cheeky twat and you know you are going to get bollocked for it you won't do it and you won't learn you can get away with that behaviour.

Schools are being asked to do way more than they used to and on top of that they are being forced to keep the kids who would have been spirited away to other premises (either for SEN or behaviour). And these kids influence and disrupt all the others in the process.

The schools are caught between a rock and a hard place with demands put on them. I don't think there's a lot more they can do without massive issues with resources for SEN kids and greater involvement of trained social workers for the parents as well as the kids.

Try stopping them and you get a load of abuse from their parents, telling you it’s their human right. They then inform you they have told their child to leave and take no notice of the teacher.
This country has a serious medical crisis. Suddenly a huge number have weak bladders, toilet issues and kidney problems…..

The only thing I would say about uniforms is it makes it harder to bully someone for what they wear. It’s very obvious how poor the family is by what clothes the children have. As a child I would dread ‘mufti’ day as I had no nice clothes at all.

Some of the semi-hysterical stuff on this thread is a perfect example of why schools have had to tighten up their rules. If you are dealing with parents who think waiting for a few minutes to go to the loo is the same as being in a POW camp then it’s not surprising their kids are incapable of following any sort of instruction. It’s pathetic, and a truly insulting comparison. I have been teaching for 30 years - students these days are safeguarded (rightly), cared for and fussed over within the school environment like no previous generation. We have pastoral staff employed simply to help and support students. Special arrangements are constantly made to adjust aspects of school life to help students to succeed. And many students need this help. But no-one seems to notice all of that patting and stroking, and instead we have all this frothing and raging about the outrage of having to wear a blazer and bring a pen to school. Teach your kids some manners and tell them that at school they do as they are told. We’re doing lots of the emotional support stuff for you, so it’s the least you can do.