Reform want to cut PIP

[Daygloboo]

Reform want to cut benefits for disabled people. They want businesses to pay more towards sickness etc. I find it repulsive that they want to do this. When will people understand that they are a bunch of self interested sharks who want to make a stack of dosh for themselves while in govt and that they font give a damn about anyone in need. Why cant the most vulnerable ppl who vote for them see thus. It's astonishing. It's ac joke. I eish ppl who get what Reform.iscreally about and how it manipulates would make sn extra effort to tslk to.ppl who dont seem to get it.

And who is going to provide the increase in carer hours?

It is highly unusual to have an open policy when the only drivers are family members and the person doesn’t also have carers.

We have an open policy for DS1. It isn’t anyone over 17. It is anyone over 25 for his vehicle as long as the person also meets the other criteria. DH and I drive his vehicle, but so do his carers and members of staff from his EOTAS package. If DH and I couldn’t use the vehicle, DS1 would need more carer hours.

Yep, exactly what I thought earlier.

Clueless.

Then you should know that presentations can and do differ. Not everyone is affected the same. Not everyone can train and ‘keep strong’. It isn’t merely about learning about a condition.

They are. They can only be used for the benefit of the person being cared for.

Because anyone can apply for PIP unlike other benefits which are means tested! You could have £500k of savings in the bank and still get PIP! And before anyone comes on here saying nobody would do that...... 😂😂🙄🙄

You are talking utter shit. Motability cars insurance can only have up to three named drivers.

In the Netherlands, people have to pay for private health insurance, and the government awards 'health contracts' to health providers directly for x spaces/year. Healthcare facilitation is on par with the NHS though their A&E seems better organised. They have waiting lists and it can be challenging to book in with a GP, much like in the UK. But their primary health centres are brilliant - these basically host a variety of health providers including physio, mental health, and it's a model we will start to see in the UK as well.

But is it cheaper for the government? In essence, no. The NHS costs the government: ~£3,500 – £4,100 per person annually (approx. €4,100 – €4,800).

Private health costs the Dutch government: ~€5,000 – €5,600 per person annually.

Now let's look at the Dutch situation again.

In the Netherlands, an employer has to pay for insurance for their employees' sickness absence. This will indirectly come out of the employees' wages (just like how higher corporate taxes will make our shopping more expensive).

Wait - surely that means that the benefit cost per person is higher in the UK than in the Netherlands.

Ha, no. The annual cost per person for sickness and disability benefits is significantly higher in the Netherlands than in the UK.

Benefits UK: ~£950 – £1,050 (€1,100 – €1,220) avg per person.
Benefits NL: ~€1,800 – €2,100 (~£1,550 – £1,800) avg per person.

Wait a minute, does that mean that Reform is full of cr*p? Why, yes. Sorry folks. Remember Brexit and the lies that were told to the public? Exactly - it's a repeat, and people should mistrust Farage and anything he says.

Want to talk about saving some costs?

• The UK spends £165 million to £166 million annually on licence fee collection and enforcement.
• NHS annual Claimant Legal Costs: £622 million
• NHS Defence Legal Costs: £188 million

Hey Farage, we could improve the NHS + save costs. Why not jump on that one?

And stop wasting money on tv licence enforcement and instead focus on supporting quality radio and television that people actually want to pay for. How about that? Not enough of a vote-winner?

Talking of which, I’m going to have to read this dratted report aren’t I, to see what Reform says about state pensioners on PIP. I imagine they’ll be protected.

(And yes, it happens. If you are on PIP when you become of state pension age and claim your state pension, you automatically stay on it instead of claiming Attendance Allowance.)

Good for you but that doesnt mean that everyone with your condtion is exactly the same as you
Which is why it goes off need not diagnosis
Many people with disabillties wont meet the criteria for disabillty benefits.

A minority of people have an open policy. It is for when someone has multiple carers who drive the vehicle. It isn’t a free for all like the pp is making out though. It is still for the benefit of the disabled person.

Often family members are the carers and are the ones taking the disabled person to doctors and hospital appointments and generally keeping them mobile to socialise. And there are quite a few restrictions on those aged under 25 and under 21 as named drivers. There are trackers in new motability leases to cut down on unauthorised usage and named drivers have to live within five miles of the disabled person.

And motability is part charity, part business. Apart from the exemptions to vehicle excise duty and road tax, which all disabled people are entitled to regardless of whether they use the scheme or not, the vehicles don’t cost the tax payer anything beyond the higher rate mobility allowance that’s handed over for each three year lease period. This is an allowance the disabled person would get regardless of whether they use the scheme or not, and is only awarded to the most severely disabled.

Vehicles are sourced by motability at negotiated lower prices from vehicle manufacturers, leased to customers in return for their benefit, returned at the end of the lease scheme and sold on. A lot of the tax breaks and other exemptions have now been withdrawn making it more expensive for disabled people to afford to join the scheme. Contrary to popular belief you don’t just hand over your allowance and drive away. Most vehicles attract advance payments and there are high insurance excesses - again because a lot of the exemptions have been removed so motability have had to pass much of the resulting higher prices to the customer.

And once again, benefit claimants and working people aren't two distinct groups.

Actually just put that on my gravestone, I've said it that many times.

On this thread we’ve had people assert it would be better to pay multiple times more money to formal carers to get parents out to work, instead of caring for their own children. That parent carers should be employed to care for other disabled children so their parents can go out to work (at considerably higher cost than the most common DLA award), that DLA is in some way compensating parents for having disabled carers.

Im all for hearing differing points of view, but I’m not going to pretend all views are equal. And listening goes both ways - I’ve yet to see one person supporting Reform policies acknowledge the glaring problems that would arise from simply cutting PIP.

This.

Those people in such areas of poor socio economic outlook do believe they are absolutely the entitled ones and the reason they are struggling is because others are getting their money too. Money that would improve their local area, create more for them.

They honestly do believe that
Dave in the next county is fraudulently claiming and Mohammed down the road is taking their job and country money - that they deserve their benefits but others don’t.

This is what Reform and Restore are aiming for.

Cause in house hostility between neighbours whist they rob Peter to feed themselves.

I don’t think you’ll find anyone who disagree the system needs an overhaul. But it needs improving to support people - not deciding who is and isn’t deserved and ripping support away.

I have a friend who receives PIP as do many of her acquaintances who are in remission for cancer. My friend's husband earns a good salary and said friend now choses to work part time hours. She has been through a terrible ordeal obviously but why is she entitled to PIP? Another older friend receives it too. She has a chronic illness and had to give up work a few years ago. She receives her pension now and her rent is paid for her. She is off on holiday again to foreign climes soon. Whilst I don't begrudge her a holiday I think its a ridiculous situation. She also received pension credit for a time until her income just tipped over the threshold. Do either of these people really need PIP payments? How is this sustainable going forward? I'm not benefiting bashing, I love both these people.

I've come to the conclusion that poster is either having a laugh or is so entrenched in their deserving/undeserving rhetoric that they'd die before they'd consider actual facts.

Well, now you have. I don't believe simply cutting PIP is the best policy. Then again, both Labour and Conservatives have pledged to make similar cuts to the welfare system.

She has been through a terrible ordeal obviously but why is she entitled to PIP?

You can’t be fucking serious can you?

Hopefully you don’t have any lived experience of having cancer yourself so will have no idea what toll cancer and the treatments have on your body.

I am gob smacked at some of these responses. Utterly god b smacked.

Please don't discuss disabled people in such infantilising terms. It looks very much as though you feel you're of a higher species.

As ever, better to keep quiet and risk everyone thinking you're an idiot, etc.

The Reform proposals will require everyone on PIP and UC Health Element to be (re)assessed, won’t they?

Where’s that money coming from? How many years will it take??

So? Do additional costs of disability disappear when your bank statement reaches a certain number?

In some very limited circumstances motability customers can have open policies so that multiple carers can drive the car. The customers will usually be living in a residential care home, nursing home, or residential school, or require 24 hour care, or use a wheelchair accessible vehicle and be reliant on a rotating group of multiple carers or support workers.

I fully agree the welfare system needs reform, I’m not blind to the ever increasing costs or the issues with young people moving from education to a life on benefits. For me though it’s much more nuanced than looking at disability benefits in isolation.

There needs to be housing reform, to make accommodation secure, accessible and affordable, health reform so people can access health care early before issues become entrenched, education that accommodates differing need. Cutting benefits is a great headline and feeds the “something for nothing” brigade but doesn’t actually solve the issues of people who need health and social care support to function.

I bet if you asked nicely she'd show you her award letter. Then you'd need wonder no more. After all, you're her friend.

Kemi Badenoch’s reply was something to the effect that you don’t try to fix the economy on the backs of disabled people !!