Reform want to cut PIP

[Daygloboo]

Reform want to cut benefits for disabled people. They want businesses to pay more towards sickness etc. I find it repulsive that they want to do this. When will people understand that they are a bunch of self interested sharks who want to make a stack of dosh for themselves while in govt and that they font give a damn about anyone in need. Why cant the most vulnerable ppl who vote for them see thus. It's astonishing. It's ac joke. I eish ppl who get what Reform.iscreally about and how it manipulates would make sn extra effort to tslk to.ppl who dont seem to get it.

Agree with everything you've said

I totally agree with you. I hope they get in too.

If you claim PIP via the can er route, they want the details of your Macmillan Nurse. You have to spend in medical evidence. You can't lie about time frames. He's bigging things up to you. I do PIP claims, voluntarily. I used to work for a welfare rights organisation. People tend to exaggerated their award and how little they've had to do to get it. The truth is rather different.

Oh my God.

This is so exhausting.

No. PIP shouldn’t be means tested, because it is intended on the extra costs and difficulties caused by disability/ill health.

Right firstly, disability and chronic ill health cost money regardless of a persons income. A disabled person earning 80K could still have substantial additional costs than a non disabled person on 80K doesn’t have.

If PIP stopped once you earned over a certain amount someone earning £10 more could potentially lose hundreds of pounds despite having exactly the same disability/condition and costs.

It could also discourage work. Someone might think “If I increase my hours or get promoted I’ll lose my PIP so what’s the point?” That’s incredibly problematic when PIP can help someone stay in work.

Two people with identical incomes could have completely different needs.

Means testing would add another layer of bureaucracy. PIP already assesses whether someones condition causes qualifying difficulties. Adding detailed financial assessments would make the system more complicated and more strain on the tax payer.

I repeat: if you have no idea about PIP or what it’s like to have a disability or chronic health condition then please shut up.

I don't think that the pip benefit in itself is the main problem really. It's the way that once people manage to get signed off as unable to work too easily and then become eligible for the full package of benefits. And then their partner qualifies for carers allowance too.

My ex has never worked (officially) in the 10 years since we separated. Started off claiming job seekers but eventually got signed off as disabled. But has worked plenty of cash in hand jobs over the years, including for a removals company. Having a bad back suddenly wasn't an issue then. Of course I've never received a penny in child maintenance for our 3 DC as disability benefits exempts ex from paying.

Another household I know the wife is permanently signed off as disabled (despite seeming to be in good health), husband doesn't work as he's her carer (except he does work, but again, only cash jobs). They live in a nice 4 bed housing association home (it was a new build when they first moved in, with their young kids. Now all the kids are adult and at least two of them have moved out. They live very, very comfortably, two newish cars, camper van, 4 or 5 holidays abroad every year, and don't have to go to work at all. There's a lot of people living like this. A lot. Something needs to change.

@Coconutter24

Thats not how PIP works, its not means tested or related to a spouse's income.

So either this person does not exist or they are not on PIP

There won't be a plan.

This is for headlines, it will collapse whebn it meets reality, along with causing a lot of suffering.

They have to pay towards them. I support a wheelchair user and was talking about motorbility with her mum. They had a brilliant vehicle with ramp access/7 seater. They had to put down an 18k deposit for that particular van. It is not paid for purely out of the benefit.

Reform went to cut everything, though. That’s their approach because I don’t think there’s any deeper economic analysis. Plus, a lot of their reason for existing is engineering grievances in the electorate about other people getting something for nothing. They have no greater vision for society than that, as far as I can see.

Id like to think this would make my parents stop and pause (they are planning on voting reform, purely to stop the boats) since my father receives pip, but I'm sure if they (and everyone else) voted them in they would soon realise the monumental mistake they made, although that's unlikely because the generation who have fallen for reforms lies seem to struggle with accountability

I know. It’s ludicrously stupid and they want people to vote in a party that stupid!🤣Not a chance.

Please show us one single shard of evidence from anywhere that backs up your claim that reforms to the welfare bill have been shelved due to the human rights of people to sit on their arses.

Gateway to lots of other resources and benefits.

Social housing, housing benefit, council tax benefit, carers allowance, increased UC, discounts on days out, different funding schemes in education and work. NO benefit cap if you have a dependent child on DLA.

There have been several threads on MN with OPs making the equivalent of 70k a year salaries just in benefits because they had a child in receipt of DLA and were in high-cost rentals.

A poster recently who had a DH earning 67k a year and they were receiving over 2k a month in benefits with a disabled DC and adapted social housing and the OP wanted more as wanted to register for carers allowance looking after her MIL.

That's why it's a trap. Several hundred a month may not be enough to live on if claiming PIP but the extras it can help entitled people to means they're reliant on it and have no incentive to get into work or get better because once they're not receiving it, lots of other benefits fall away.

When David Cameron the multimillionaire was PM he was claiming DLA for his severely disabled child who later sadly died because he said it gave access to other things they needed. Including the 4 nappies he claimed per day from the NHS.

This 💯

I’m a tax payer.

I’m also on PIP.

Did you know we exist?

Please shut up with “tax payers are sick of funding…”. Trying to create toxic divides isn’t helpful.

Educated yourself.

You are joking aren’t you? At one point I was seriously looking at having to stop working completely because there is no such thing as after school childcare for a 12 year old whose additional needs mean they can’t be home alone while the parent finishes work.

My DD is in special school. Even at 15, and able to look after herself for an hour or two her school won’t let her leave school transport unless an adult is present. The idea of after school care for every child who needs it is marvellous, it’s also completely unrealistic without investment in care for kids with disabilities, which will cost considerably more than DLA allowing a parent to be at home for their disabled child.

So are you happy with people "getting something for nothing" ?

Life doesn't owe anyone a living.

I work in a role supporting a lot of people. Most want to work. Some have never worked. The reality is they would really struggle to work even part time. And who would employ people with almost no experience of work who will frequently need days off?
Theres a job shortage.

But this will put huge numbers of people out of work and make them unemployable even those who have zero benefits, take away sickness pay for all of us, be an invasion of privacy when we will all have our medical records scrutinised on applying for jobs…so it’s beyond trying to look like the party of cuts (which we’ve had for years under the Tories) it’s just plain stupid.

And than we will get the tax the 'Rich Lot' who believe that if we tax Wealth we could stop all these policies . The only Problem being the Rich will be gone and the only ones to tax will be ''You'. Yes we save the 'benefits' great but the country goes bust because all the people who can do leave, because the UK does not offer 'value' for money and is not fit for purpose that to be an economically business friendly place that is solvent enough to look after its needy . This of course means we need to not look at 'rich' people as Filthy or through green eyes but realise whatever you define as rich is fundamentally needed in this country to function. So the advent of Wealth taxes etc will not help disabled people keep their benefits when the Tax not 'collected' is propping up the dying Pound or the economy .

Only people who have chronic conditions get close to a full time wage. It isn't their fault that there isn't more affordable housing, because that's what people are struggling with. Or that we privatised the industries and they want massive profits, so we pay over the odds for everything.

People who need support get £836 a month. Pip + UC. They still have to top up rent and CT, pay utilities etc. Again it isn't their fault tgat wages are so low and the amount of hours offered, not enough. We are attacking the wrong people.

No. PIP shouldn’t be means tested, because it is intended on the extra costs and difficulties caused by disability/ill health
The issue is the gap between the intention and the reality. There is not forcibly a direct correlation between the severity or type of disability and the actual genuine extra costs. Assessing what is a need purely relating to a disability is often impossible.

The mobility scheme is a perfect example. How many claimants would still have a car even if it wasn't for their disability? Nowadays, very few families don't have at least one car especially with children because it's a convenience that has become an essential for most families, disability or not. That scheme needs to be scratched as it's long not be fit for purpose.

I don’t care. We should prioritise paying for afterschool care for disabled children. We need to start normalising work for all parents in this country. Providing afterschool care for disabled kids is part of this. It’s the Scandinavian way. Get citizens working. Remove barriers to them working. Make it really, really odd not to be working. Make not working socially unacceptable. That’s how you fund better public services in the long run.

im glad you agree with me.

I don't know why the Govt doesn't get claimants to do something in return for their benefits. All the anti claimant sentiment would go, the claimants would gain some feelings of self-worth. Maybe give them 6 months grace to find a job. After that, you do 22 hours a week socially useful work. Employers would be more inclined to employ someone who has actually been doing something constructive. Younger OAPs could act as overseers to ensure that they actually work.

I think its the cheapest way to appear to 'support' disabled people without actually having to do anything: they can chuck a few hundred pounds at someone and leave them to sort their own needs out while calling it independence.