Reform want to cut PIP

[Daygloboo]

Reform want to cut benefits for disabled people. They want businesses to pay more towards sickness etc. I find it repulsive that they want to do this. When will people understand that they are a bunch of self interested sharks who want to make a stack of dosh for themselves while in govt and that they font give a damn about anyone in need. Why cant the most vulnerable ppl who vote for them see thus. It's astonishing. It's ac joke. I eish ppl who get what Reform.iscreally about and how it manipulates would make sn extra effort to tslk to.ppl who dont seem to get it.

@happybug1234 working and middle income people like myself have had enough now.

Oh and by the way, I also work whilst being a recipient of PIP due to my chronic incurable health condition. Full time too may I add.

I pay tax. Shock horror!!!!

There is no “us working people” and “them on PIP”. I’m afraid to tell you that a lot of us in PIP fall into BOTH categories.

Shove it 🖕🏻 up your arse.

I think it’s worth reiterating once again that PIP (Personal Independence Payment) is designed to help with the extra costs of living with a disability. It is not means tested.

In other words anyone can claim it if they can meet the criteria. I agree it needs looking at - if you look at the stats for conditions claimed for, the biggest increase has been for mental health conditions - particularly Anxiety and ADHD (arguably this is neurological, however there is a school of thought that it’s a response to trauma so many cases could be MH rather ND- so possibly responsive to decent therapeutic treatment).

The obvious question is that you can’t claim
PIP without medical evidence so why is there such a huge increase in these conditions ? Or could it be that the previous structures in place to deal with disability and mental health issues are now so decimated after consistent undermining since Thatcher’s ‘Care in the Community’ initiative that we are no longer able to offer proper support to people in crisis and the cascade of events only leads downwards to these people being unable to work and unable to claim any kind of incapacity benefit - hence the increase in PIP claims. Every government action has a knock on effect. Governments used to do impact studies before major policy changes. Sadly the quality of politicians and civil servants is not what it was. You realise how bad it is when you look at people like Kinnock, Major et al and realise they were a different level of education, life experience, skill and intelligence.

I don’t know what to tell you - they repeatedly lie to their GP about “symptoms” and then use that as the basis of their claim. If you’re a dishonest person it’s easy to lie.

You're the first poster here who seems to have any insight into Reform's plans.
Can you give us the detail of what they're proposing? How they'll fund the staff and resources needed for the additional administration whilst saving money on administration?

Thanks.

So someone on £30pw PIP will no longer be able to get the health element of UC?
Do you know how little the UC is to begin with?

Given that the Brexit referendum demonstrated that turkeys will vote enthusiastically for Christmas, we can hardly blame populist politicians for giving the turkeys further opportunities to do so if it gets them elected.

I would cost more to the country to try and track and only reimburse extra expenses than it does with a two bands of allowance for mobility and daily living.

If all the people on this and numerous other threads who claim to know people lying to get PIP, really do know this for a fact, why don't you report them to DWP. If you don't you are as much a part of the problem.

@happybug1234

No PIP isn't designed to fund all inclusive holidays. Did that family also tell thats how they paid for the holiday? May be a grandparent paid.
I'm very recently in receipt of PIP. Ive just come back from a holiday. It was paid for by a very dear and generous friend who wanted me to have something nice after a hellish 6 months of chemotherapy.

But you wouldn't know that - you'd just see a person on holiday eating ice cream and cake

Pip is unaffordable, and the FT has done some good analysis showing we pay at twice the rate of other European countries for mental health PIP, with autism/adhd being the part that has rocketed up since Covid. This is really bad because 18 yo’s are getting PIP instead of going into work, which sets them up badly for life given the link between not working and bad mental health.
So it definitely needs reforming and you need to understand the proposal before condemning it. What is actually being proposed, do you know? I have no idea if their proposal is sensible but it’s unlikely to be worse than the current situation in its wider effects.

The government were (and still are) proposing that only people on PIP could get the health element of UC.
Which is the total opposite of what you are suggesting.

Nail on the head. The mainstream parties can easily get rid of Reform/Restore by actually listening to the "silent majority" and start to deal with the myriad of issues facing people. By not listening, they're gifting the next GE to Restore/Reform and their ilk. It's been like this for 2/3/4 decades - politicians completely out of touch with the silent majority - it caused Brexit and WILL cause the next GE to be won by Farage. Labour/Tories need a kick up their arses as they're not on the same wavelength as the voters, especially out in the deprived regions.

Difference being I actually know these four people. Quite well.
And you dont.

Those are the claims that get rejected.
You know almost half of all claims are rejected right?

The trouble is, if the government don’t deal with illegal immigration properly then people will vote reform regardless. That’s such a strong topic at the moment that it seems to trump most other issues.
It amuses me that the only reason Andy Burnham is now PM is because Reform took so many local councils. The only reason this happened is because people were sending a message to the government about the illegal immigration thing. Yet, he still isn’t addressing it. So yes, I believe people will vote Reform, and everything that goes with it, purely because Reform say they’ll stop the boats. If you have a government that aren’t listening to its people, then radical groups come to power. It’s always been the same throughout history

What changes do you genuinely believe Reform will make that will benefit the people/families you speak with?

How will they fund that?
How will they achieve their aims and cut admin costs as they have promised?

Mosy children with autisn wont get the highest rates of DLA
If they do they will be either virtually unable to walk and that would mean their behaviour is so extreme it renders them virtually unable to walk , or severely mentally impaired which means they need somone with them the entire time they are awake to keep thrm safe

its very high currently, although by far the biggest slice is pensions as we have such a top heavy elderly population. The triple lock should probably be means tested, mind you it would cost a fortune to implement and older people are more likely to vote so can’t see it happening.

Are they cutting Attendance Allowance too?

It's all disgusting. Many disabilities are invisible but too many people think because they can't see them that it doesn't exist.

Reform are only out to make money for themselves, not to support workers or disabled.

Most people who are eligible for PIP score around 8-10 points and thus receive Standard Rate Daily which is £373 a month. There are other components such as Enhanced Rate which brings Daily Living rate up-to £470 a month . For the nearly £800 a month requires Motobilty allowance. Over 65-70% of those who receive PIP are just receiving Standard Daily Living at £373 a month. Everybody is convinced everybody is getting £800 a month an a car. In order to receive £800 you need to be seriously disabled, there is so much 'misunderstandings' around PIP and Political Parties seek to use peoples lack of knowledge for Political posturing. I would say PIP is the very last benefit that should be abolished or stopped. It needs 'managing' such as measures that has happened with Motobilty cars recently, . That unfortunately was a 'racket' and the effects of that being exposure for most disabled people in the eyes of many to a un warranted benefit !

I am on the Political 'Right' but it does not mean I don't believe in supporting Disabled people at least as well as possibly. On the whole Disabled people are the Poorest People in the United Kingdom and least supported this is 'even' worse from those on the Left by the way !

It’s not “extra income”, my earning capacity was reduced by two thirds as a result of caring for my disabled kids. I calculate I lost well over £100k during the time my capacity for work was reduced. What you’re proposing would mean that I continue to work full time and have the state provide the care needed, because without DLA I couldn’t have covered the costs of my DCs disabilities. The cost of state provided care would be significantly higher than the DLA awarded.

Poorly educated enough to make themselves vulnerable to being taken advantage of by Reform. It’s sad to watch.

Pip dont tske GP evidence seroously as its just patient says.

That does not mean 85% are taking the piss though either.

There's another big discussion we could have around how hard it is to get or keep a job with a long term disability or chronic illness.

Some people will claim PIP so they can work less to manage their illness or will claim so they can finally stop working because they're getting worse. Nobody I know has given up their job lightly or happily due to disability or ill health. It is a scary thing to step off that cliff and become dependent on the state.

It's so sad to see people turning on the most vulnerable people.

exactly. It’s like the (failing) NHS funding model. We could revert to something like the Eau funding model, but Labour haven’t the balls so their wait until it’s totally dead, Reform get in and we’ll get the US system nobody wants.

PIP is totally unaffordable. We cannot just stick our heads in the sand and pretend yeh it’s ok to keep bunging people cash payments for ADHD, to write people off for life with depression etc. people who work and pay taxes deserve public services that benefit EVERYONE, not just those who blag a PIP form.