AIBU to think empty first class should be opened on crowded trains?

[boredsoscrollingonMNagain]

I was on a long journey this weekend , It was a 5 and a half hour journey with one change.

our first train was massively delayed , meaning we missed our next one. But , we coped and it’s all done now and we will get compensated .

However , I was really cross at this:

We had reserved seats on both trains. We don’t travel on trains with no reserved seats as my eldest is autistic and gets distressed with nowhere to sit. He prefers a certain seat, so we always try for that, but the main thing is he has a seat. The train was taken from 9 to 4 carriages so all reservations cancelled and this first train was a 2 hr journey for us. My husband wasn’t with us and we had large cases so I was stressed ! My eldest was obviously worried - luckily we found seats and all was ok . But , when the train came in I saw a carriage empty and my worry was getting these cases on alone and having no space , so I went to the empty carriage and was turned away because it was first class. We got on fine in the end, thanks to the help of lovely strangers and we got seats right next to first class and I could see in and it said all seats were available- not reserved - and maybe 2 people in the whole carriage. For the whole journey , the other carriages were like sardines - it was awful. They announced they couldn’t get the refreshment trolley out because it was so busy ( also it was during a heatwave ) . First class was empty. I saw a family - including a woman with a tiny baby in a carrier and young children, turfed out. I saw many families struggling to find places to sit.

Now , I understand if you have paid for first class and the carriage was full of people who hadn’t , you would be angry . I agree if you have paid first class you should be able to sit in it. But if it’s empty , why were people turfed out when everyone’s reserved seats were cancelled ? I would understand if first class was busy , so all were reserved and they kept that carriage for that reason - it costs a lot . I also would understand if maybe they usually had 2 first class carriages ( I don’t know if they do ) , took one off , so kept all the first class seats for those with first class tickets , but on a first come first served basis. But to have them all free , the whole journey , with lots of people - families coming back from holiday - who reserved seats for a long journey and lost them , standing and struggling - but then keep it empty and leave people standing , and actively turn people holding babies in arms away - I found this disgusting !

Just to add - this isn’t about me wanting to go in first class , we had seats , we were ok and I did offer my seat up too.

when I travel first class I pay nearly double the standard fare and I do this because I want a quiet journey, so no I would not be happy if it was opened to standard fare passengers as I would not be getting what I paid for.

I've covered this above. It's disgusting that the provision for disabled passengers in standard is so poor those passengers have to pay a premium.

The fact the rail service is inadequate for disabled passengers is a general disgrace, we've lost decades of accessibility investment/improvements due to privatisation. They took profits instead of making rail more accessible.

They'd stop differentiating if everyone stopped buying first class. We can fix our own problems with our own choices.

Don't like torturing animals? Stop eating industry-farmed meat.

Don't like Amazon mistreating staff? Stop shopping with Amazon.

Don't like billionaires? Stop buying their shit.

It is disgusting but part of the problem is passengers themselves using the priority seats.

If i couldn't buy first class I couldn't travel.

You’re not wrong about that, but removing the possibility of first class for disabled and infirm people while this problem persists isn’t going to help anyone. So no, you haven’t ’covered that’ in the reality of the here and now.

I haven't laid out a timeline for full standardisation. I'm not in charge so you've little to fear from me.

For starters we can just open unused first class to standard ticketholders when trains are at capacity.

We can add this to the list of issues to sort.

I note the unions are opposed to trains without staff, and the staff should be empowered to enforce standards.

The railways are so shit passengers take what they can. I think if we weren't all being ripped off we'd all benefit.

That’s fine, but if the people in the other carriages were in a genuinely uncomfortable and potentially dangerous situation I’d like to think I’d get over myself and not have a problem with people coming into first class!

I now always travel first class (GWR) because I think it's a much better experience which I'm happy to pay extra for. Mainly to avoid the crowds both at the station and on the train.

There are first class lounges at my station and at Paddington which you have to show your first class ticket to get into. There I can get free hot drinks, water, snacks, as well as getting those free on the train too, saves a few quid. I don't have to wait on the seething concourse. I can walk slowly to the train because I know I'll have a seat.

The seats in first are bigger and in a 1 and 2 formation so I never have to sit next to anyone as I book a single seat. First is never busy so I'm not surrounded by people.

All those things add up to a generally more pleasant experience. When I travelled first class a couple of years ago it was so much better I decided never to travel standard again.

Think you missed the point. It's sad how conditioned we are to accept 2nd rate as normal.

There is no reason all carriages can't be at the same standard as 1st class. It's a deliberate decision to create differences to justify price differences.

I'm sure they can come up with ways to support people with disabilities. Adjustments can be made.

The trains don't or shouldn't let people on if it is dangerously overcrowded. If it's just a case if a few healthy, able bodied people having to stand for a bit, I think that is better than a disabled or elderly person who has bought a first class ticket not being able to travel at all.

Yes exactly.

People accept things are shit, then voluntarily pay extra to get something pretty basic because it is slightly less shit.

My reserved seat was cancelled and as someone was sitting "in my seat" I messaged GWR pointing out I had reserved because I had a disabled rail card. I'm hearing impaired but nevertheless classed as disabled. I was messaged back that if I could find a guard then I could go into first class with no additional cost. A normal seat became free at the next stop at Reading so I didn't bother. Why the passengers who were getting off the next stop didn't allow those travelling for the next 3 hours their seats I'll never know. If that was me I would have given up my seat if I was only going one stop.

Perhaps that may be a suggestion to have a disabled persons railcard, 1/3 off fares for the person and another adult as their carer, for future journeys.

Those snotty first class travellers it's a seat they want not the fruit cake with a 3 month expiry date and a bottle of water.

There is a reason and it is money. What ways do you suggest they come up with for elderly or disabled passengers to get a seat?

As I said, I’ve been on multiple trains that are dangerously overcrowded. Train operators absolutely do let people on. I don’t have a problem standing for a while, I do have a problem with my body being pushed up against the inside of the train to the point where I can’t move.

They shouldn't let people on if it is dangerous.

I agree!

If a passenger needs a seat, that should be possible to book. Our railway should work for all passengers, not just richer passengers.

My life is hard enough as a disabled person thanks. I'm not going to refuse to pay a few pounds extra for first class and probably never travel again just to make train journeys better for able bodied people who don't want to pay for standard class but sit in first class.

It's not possible to book a seat even in first class on some trains. And again, I very much doubt that i am richer than most of the people in standard class. I just can't take the risk of not getting a seat.

We once had train turn up minus our pre booked carriage. We went directly to first class and when they tried to kick us out we were clear that we had paid for a seat on the train, our seats are not here and the train is full . The staff member grumbled and told us not to touch any of the complimentary items.

I was on a train recently where first class was declassified due to overcrowding. Equally, I’ve been on trains where people have been so squashed it seems dangerous, and certainly very uncomfortable, whilst there’s tumbleweed in first class. I get it’s frustrating for those who have paid but they should be able to apply for a full/partial refund if first class is declassified (not sure if that’s already a thing).

They can apply for a refund but not much conselation if you can't get on the train because no seats in first class. They only refund the difference too rather than a full refund.

I have been in first class when this happened. They give you a refund on the fare. It’s probably the least worst option overall.